# Trump apparently considering firing Mueller - If he does that what's the real world impact? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 13, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867 "2017-06-13T15:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/1 "2017-06-13T15:07:47Z")
Trump has apparently given his buddies the go ahead to say this out loud. We’re dialing “11” on the crazy knob at this point. What are you going to do with a President that’s gone rogue? If he actually follows through on this what happens? [Trump ‘Considering’ Firing Special Counsel In Russia Investigation, Friend Says](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-robert-mueller-firing_us_593f1d38e4b02402687c50d4?zg&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump is “considering” firing former FBI Director Robert Mueller, appointed by the Department of Justice to lead the investigation into ties between Trump’s campaign and Russian officials, a friend said Monday. > > “I think he’s considering perhaps terminating the special counsel. I think he’s weighing that option,” Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy told PBS NewsHour’s Judy Woodruff on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/2 "2017-06-13T15:13:58Z")
How do you solve a problem like The Donald? A flibbertijibbet! A will-o’-the wisp! A clown! I think this would lead to a constitutional crisis. Some congressmen might say they’d pass a new special counsel law and appoint Mueller themselves, but such legislation would be vetoed. What we would have would be a big neon sign on top of the White House saying “I AM ABOVE THE LAW” and enough Republican congressmen, thinking only of not offending his base, would meekly go along. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/3 "2017-06-13T15:20:33Z")
Watergate is the classic situation you look at. When Nixon did the Saturday Night Massacre > [@](#): > > The Saturday Night Massacre refers to U.S. President Richard Nixon’s orders to fire independent special prosecutor Archibald Cox, which led to the resignations of Attorney General Elliot Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus on October 20, 1973, during the Watergate scandal. > **[Saturday Night Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre)** > > The "Saturday Night Massacre" was a series of resignations over the dismissal of special prosecutor Archibald Cox that took place in the United States Department of Justice during the Watergate scandal in 1973. The events followed the refusal by Cox to drop a subpoena for the Nixon White House tapes at President Richard Nixon's request. > During a single evening on Saturday, October 20, Nixon ordered Attorney General Elliot Richardson to fire Archibald Cox; Richardson refused and resigned effect... After than happened impeachment talk started getting serious. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/4 "2017-06-13T15:23:23Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Watergate is the classic situation you look at. When Nixon did the Saturday Night Massacre > > [Saturday Night Massacre - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre) > > After than happened impeachment talk started getting serious. That’s what _should_ happen. Hopefully, it would again. But- I have serious doubts about whether there would be enough Republican Senators with the intestinal fortitude to convict one of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/5 "2017-06-13T15:35:28Z")
There would be a huge uproar by the D’s and the media. Some of the GOP party leaders would push to have a new special counsel appointed. Giuliani or Christie or some other loyalist with a prosecutor background would be appointed. If they started an actual investigation they would probably be fired. Rinse, lather, repeat until 2020. McConnell and Ryan will block any impeachment action as long as they have the majority of votes. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/6 "2017-06-13T15:48:37Z")
Merely floating the idea of firing Mueller is evidence that the Trump administration is running scared. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/7 "2017-06-13T15:56:42Z")
AIUI, only Rod Rosenstein can fire Mueller under the current rules and he [says that he isn’t going to.](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/13/rod-rosenstein-robert-mueller-orders-to-fire-239485) Of course Trump can fire Rosenstein, or change the rules. I don’t want to be too pessimistic, but if Trump does do that and get rid of Mueller somehow I don’t think anything too much will happen beyond some people yelling about it - at least not in the short term. The Republicans have collectively made a decision that they’re more afraid of losing their primary elections for failing to toe the line than losing general elections for toeing it. Unless and until that changes, Trump can do whatever he wants and no one on that side of the aisle will punish him. If that does change, it can change pretty quick though. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/8 "2017-06-13T16:00:30Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Watergate is the classic situation you look at. When Nixon did the Saturday Night Massacre > > [Saturday Night Massacre - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre) > > After than happened impeachment talk started getting serious. But he was facing a Democratic congress in both Houses; things are a little different now. The only thing that will force Republicans to change course on Trump is a real fear of losing the House next year. That is the only thing that will stop Trump – that and truly patriotic civil servants. But keep in mind at all times that these civil servants are part of the ‘administrative class’ that Steve Bannon wants to destroy. And now that they’re threatening Trump’s self-image, Trump wants to destroy them too. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/9 "2017-06-13T16:52:30Z")
I’m not confident that they’d have to go three levels down in DoJ to find a Bork this time. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/10 "2017-06-13T16:59:42Z")
It’s already at that point. Sessions has recused and Rosenstein says he wouldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/11 "2017-06-13T17:09:45Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m not confident that they’d have to go three levels down in DoJ to find a Bork this time. Have they dug up Bork yet and tried to reanimate him? What I see is both Sessions and Rosenstein get fired and they keep going down down down until they find a willing stooge. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/12 "2017-06-13T17:20:56Z")
Who is next in line if Roddy is fired…and doesn’t the next in line have to be checked out and/or confirmed before she/he even has the authority to follow Trump’s wish to fire Mueller? ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/13 "2017-06-13T17:23:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Have they dug up Bork yet and tried to reanimate him? Bork gets dug up quite often, but heretofore it’s been to justify innovations in the SC nomination/confirmation process. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/14 "2017-06-13T17:28:57Z")
The link shows a good graphic on how Trump could get Mueller fired. Basically, do it himself, or have the acting AG do it (it lists the succession). [How Trump Could Fire Mueller](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/06/13/how-trump-could-fire-the-special-counsel-if-he-were-foolish-enough-to-try/?utm_term=.84741e56b51e) ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/15 "2017-06-13T18:25:57Z")
99% he does it. He’ll actually use investigating obstruction as the reason. He’ll say that’s not part of what Mueller was appointed for. He’ll order Sessions to do it. If Sessions tries to beg off, saying he recused himself, he’ll fire him. Then he’ll go to Rosenstein. Rosenstein won’t do it. He’ll fire him. Etc., until someone does it. Trump doesn’t care if the Dems take the house and impeach him, he knows he’ll never get convicted. The more shit he takes and lives, the stronger he gets in his own head. It’s coming. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/16 "2017-06-13T18:34:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who is next in line if Roddy is fired…and doesn’t the next in line have to be checked out and/or confirmed before she/he even has the authority to follow Trump’s wish to fire Mueller? Next in line after rosenstein is associate attorney general Rachel brand. Brand is fairly right wing but I have no idea if she’d fire Mueller. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/17 "2017-06-13T18:40:33Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Next in line after rosenstein is associate attorney general Rachel brand. Brand is fairly right wing but I have no idea if she’d fire Mueller. I think after her is solicitor general Jeffrey wall. What about the other part of the question: Do they automatically have the power/authority to fire Mueller the instant Trump says “I choose you, [del]Pikachu[/del] sir/madame!”, or is there a background check and/or confirmation process they have to go through first? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/18 "2017-06-13T18:44:19Z")
Hahahaha. Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy never spoke to Trump about firing Mueller. There is no evidence that Trump spoke to anyone about firing Mueller. The news media outlets are having their usual anti-Trump field day without any evidence to back up their horseshit. Ruddy said he had formed his opinion by something a Trump lawyer had said the day before. > **[Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy: Trump is Thinking About ‘Terminating’ Special...](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/newsmax-ceo-chris-ruddy-trump-is-thinking-about-terminating-special-counsel-robert-mueller/)** > > Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy was spotted at the White House today, and he's now saying that President Donald Trump told him he might get rid of the man leading the special investigation into Russia's efforts to interfere with the 2016 election. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/19 "2017-06-13T18:48:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy never spoke to Trump about firing Mueller. There is no evidence that Trump spoke to anyone about firing Mueller. > > The news media outlets are having their usual anti-Trump field day without any evidence to back up their horseshit. > > Ruddy said he had formed his opinion by something a Trump lawyer had said the day before. > > [Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy: Trump is Thinking About ‘Terminating’ Special Counsel Robert Mueller](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/newsmax-ceo-chris-ruddy-trump-is-thinking-about-terminating-special-counsel-robert-mueller/) Are you supposing that Newt floated the idea on his own? Care to buy this bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867/20 "2017-06-13T20:31:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy never spoke to Trump about firing Mueller. There is no evidence that Trump spoke to anyone about firing Mueller. > > The news media outlets are having their usual anti-Trump field day without any evidence to back up their horseshit. > > Ruddy said he had formed his opinion by something a Trump lawyer had said the day before. > > [Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy: Trump is Thinking About ‘Terminating’ Special Counsel Robert Mueller](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/newsmax-ceo-chris-ruddy-trump-is-thinking-about-terminating-special-counsel-robert-mueller/) I find it amusing the affectation of ‘laughing’ when you are making a fool out of yourself. do not worry though, the Politburo will soon send you the correct party line to follow to reduce your incoherencies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-apparently-considering-firing-mueller-if-he-does-that-whats-the-real-world-impact/788867.md?page=2)