# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 110
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2184 "2017-09-05T16:56:12Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I have two bets going on that currently with posters on this board. Would you like to make one too? Depends on the odds you’re offering. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2185 "2017-09-05T17:09:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Depends on the odds you’re offering. I gave Fiveyearlurker 5:1. Terms: if on Jan 1, 2019 Trump is President, I win. If he resigned or was removed from office you wins. If he died in office, neither wins. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2186 "2017-09-05T17:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=Okrahoma;20459874 If he died in office, neither wins.[/QUOTE] I’d call that “everybody wins.” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2187 "2017-09-05T17:12:13Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > You realize that getting rid of Trump is the goal here, right? “Malice, tempered by incompetence” is not something we can all get behind. I can’t speak for everyone one, but for me, yes, I’m desperate to get rid of this man. So (again, these “facts” are as you claim, not as really happened, IMO) it wasn’t ok for those who didn’t want Hillary to be elected to cheer on Russian meddling. In fact, a lot of posters here characterize it as “treason”. But it’s ok for those who want to get rid of Trump to cheer on Russian meddling. Not “treason” at all. Right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2188 "2017-09-05T17:15:28Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I gave Fiveyearlurker 5:1. Terms: if on Jan 1, 2019 Trump is President, I win. If he resigned or was removed from office you wins. If he died in office, neither wins. You must not be all that confident, then. That’s just an 80% chance that Trump remains as President into 2019. I thought these were “desperate hopes”. 20% sounds a lot better than “desperate”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2189 "2017-09-05T17:16:51Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Last desperate hope of Trump-haters… Kinda hilarious because of all your huffing and puffing about Russia interfering in US elections, and your last desperate hope is that Russia interferes somehow once again. I would argue that hoping that Mueller does not find anything untoward in Trump’s finances is a pretty desperate hope. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2190 "2017-09-05T17:19:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You must not be all that confident, then. That’s just an 80% chance that Trump remains as President into 2019. > > I thought these were “desperate hopes”. 20% sounds a lot better than “desperate”. Ah but you gotta earn your $. Have some skin in the game. So - no bet? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2191 "2017-09-05T17:21:05Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ah but you gotta earn your $. Have some skin in the game. So - no bet? I do respect your money being where your mouth is, for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2192 "2017-09-05T17:21:12Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > So (again, these “facts” are as you claim, not as really happened, IMO) it wasn’t ok for those who didn’t want Hillary to be elected to cheer on Russian meddling. In fact, a lot of posters here characterize it as “treason”. > > But it’s ok for those who want to get rid of Trump to cheer on Russian meddling. Not “treason” at all. Right? Voters “who didn’t want Hillary elected” didn’t commit treason, even if they cheered Russian activities during the election. Members of the Trump campaign (perhaps including Trump himself) may have done _something very wrong_ (I’m not prepared to call it “treason”) if they colluded with Russia to sabotage the Clinton campaign. And those of us who would welcome Russia coming clean with how they’ve been manipulating Trump and American democracy are not guilty of treason either. On the other hand, if Biden 2020 campaign is negotiating the release of the Trump Hooker Piss Tapes, and promising to ease sanctions in 2021, then yeah, I’d have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2193 "2017-09-05T17:21:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Last desperate hope of Trump-haters… Kinda hilarious because of all your huffing and puffing about Russia interfering in US elections, and your last desperate hope is that Russia interferes somehow once again. Yet another false equivalence. You apparently cannot discern the difference between Russian officials actively working in concert to interfere in our elections, an attack on our sovereignty comparable to invading our shores, v. Russian officials using material provided to them by a dipshit private citizen in their own country, doing… whatever it is he does. If Russians filmed Trump doing nasty things in a hotel room in Moscow, sure, that’s unscrupulous. But it’s Russia – a country basically on par with Trump, ethics-wise. What else did he expect? It was completely within Trump’s control to give them such material, or not. Smart people don’t do things while staying in a foreign country that could be filmed and later used to compromise them. Bet the Russians have zero kompromat on Obama. And yes, if Trump worked to assist the Russians in their election meddling, in my opinion, he is a traitor for having given “aid and comfort” to them in their efforts. [Definition of Treason](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2194 "2017-09-05T17:23:24Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ah but you gotta earn your $. Have some skin in the game. So - no bet? I’ll bet if you’re truly confident – say, if you’re 97.5% confident (i.e. 40-1 odds). I’m happy to bet on a “desperate hope”, for which 2.5% would certainly qualify. But 20%? That’s actually a pretty reasonable hope. Reasonable hopes happen pretty damn frequently, and that’s not much of an ROI for something that you’ve repeatedly characterized as “desperate”. So are you willing to put your money where your mouth is – that you really, truly believe that Trump being out of office is a “desperate hope”? Or are you not nearly as confident as your bluster would suggest? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2195 "2017-09-05T17:25:02Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Voters “who didn’t want Hillary elected” didn’t commit treason, even if they cheered Russian activities during the election. Members of the Trump campaign (perhaps including Trump himself) may have done _something very wrong_ (I’m not prepared to call it “treason”) if they colluded with Russia to sabotage the Clinton campaign. Ok. Let’s explore this logic. Did the Democrats who supplied money to Steele to pay Russian government operatives to provide the “facts” he documented do “something very wrong”? Is that “collusion to sabotage Trump candidacy” (and now Trump presidency)? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2196 "2017-09-05T17:26:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll bet if you’re truly confident – say, if you’re 97.5% confident (i.e. 40-1 odds). I’m happy to bet on a “desperate hope”, for which 2.5% would certainly qualify. Nah. That’s not enough of your skin in the game. You’d be getting off too easily. 5:1. Take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2197 "2017-09-05T17:36:00Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ok. Let’s explore this logic. Did the Democrats who supplied money to Steele to pay Russian government operatives to provide the “facts” he documented do “something very wrong”? Is that “collusion to sabotage Trump candidacy” (and now Trump presidency)? I’m not sure I’m following your accusations. But I think you’re saying Democrats were funding an investigation to figure out how Russia was blackmailing Trump. I don’t see a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2198 "2017-09-05T17:37:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Nah. That’s not enough of your skin in the game. You’d be getting off too easily. 5:1. Take it or leave it. I’ll leave it. I want to bet with a _very confident_ Trump supporter. Not a _sort-of/kind-of-confident_ Trump supporter with a lot of bluster. I’d even go down to 20-1 – that’s 95% that Trump will still be in office. But apparently you’re not nearly as confident that Trump will still be in office as your rhetoric suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2199 "2017-09-05T17:39:17Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure I’m following your accusations. But I think you’re saying Democrats were funding an investigation to figure out how Russia was blackmailing Trump. I don’t see a problem with that. I see. By the same logic, if anyone paid Russians to hack into DNC servers, it would be “funding an investigation into DNC’s wrongdoings”. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2200 "2017-09-05T17:40:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll leave it. > > I want to be with a _very confident_ Trump supporter. Not a _sort-of/kind-of-confident_ Trump supporter with a lot of bluster. > > I’d even go down to 20-1 – that’s 95% that Trump will still be in office. But apparently you’re not nearly as confident that Trump will still be in office as your rhetoric suggests. I am giving you better odds than all the betting sites. If you were a smart better, you’d arbitrage and come out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2201 "2017-09-05T17:46:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I am giving you better odds than all the betting sites. If you were a smart better, you’d arbitrage and come out ahead. I don’t bet, normally. Only when I see very favorable odds, like your claim that there’s only a “desperate hope” that Trump will be out of office in 2019. But since you could have taken your money to PredictIt and gotten better odds for your position, you must bet for other reasons – perhaps to demonstrate confidence. I’m just trying to see if you’re actually nearly as confident that you say you are. So far, you don’t appear to be. 80% confident isn’t that confident at all. Ships don’t go to see if the engineer thinks there’s a 20% chance they will fall apart and sink. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2202 "2017-09-05T17:51:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t bet, normally. Only when I see very favorable odds, like your claim that there’s only a “desperate hope” that Trump will be out of office in 2019. > > But since you could have taken your money to PredictIt and gotten better odds for your position, you must bet for other reasons – perhaps to demonstrate confidence. I’m just trying to see if you’re actually nearly as confident that you say you are. > > So far, you don’t appear to be. 80% confident isn’t that confident at all. Ships don’t go to see if the engineer thinks there’s a 20% chance they will fall apart and sink. The bet is not to “go to see”. It’s to make people who are so gone into partisanship that they are making up reality put some skin in the game. 20:1 does not accomplish that goal. 5:1 does (barely, but does). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2203 "2017-09-05T18:06:31Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The bet is not to “go to see”. It’s to make people who are so gone into partisanship that they are making up reality put some skin in the game. 20:1 does not accomplish that goal. 5:1 does (barely, but does). Are you saying that there are posts of mine that qualify as “so gone into partisanship…”? If so, which posts? As for “skin in the game”, I don’t buy it. If you really were 99% confident, then you’d offer better odds, since you’d have the potential to make so much money. Think of all the people who would gladly chip in $5 or $10 – they could add up to a nice pay day if you’re right. I’m happy to pony up more “skin” if you meet those better odds – how about $50, at 20-1 odds? I think it’s much more likely that you’re just not terribly confident. You’re kind of confident. But if you really believed that it was only a “desperate hope”, then you’d put your money where your mouth is and offer truly “desperate hope” odds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=109) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=111)