# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 117
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2324 "2017-09-20T12:38:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It is not my claim. I said it was not “dubious speculation” to assume he may have spoken to Manafort about the Trump campaign’s involvement with Russian interference in the election. That hardly translates into saying it was the “only” reason Trump may have spoken to him. I’m sorry, but it is your claim. You may have said what you describe here, but you also said the following (emphasis added): > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Manafort and Trump continued to have wiretapped conversations well into 2017, months after Manafort had “resigned” from his position as campaign chairman and well into Trump’s presidency. Based on that, I’d say it’s a safe bet some of the conversations were about the Russia investigation into the Trump campaign. If there was nothing to worry about, why have _any_ discussion with a former campaign manager at all, especially one who was under investigation for his own ties to Russia? So you did in fact claim that the only reason Trump would have any discussion with Manafort was to discuss Russia, and contrary to your subsequent denial here. And my response to that specific claim was to point out that Trump might have had discussions for other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2325 "2017-09-20T13:00:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Why? Why “incredulous” when you know that (a) Trump kept talking to Manafort until after the inaugural, and (b) he kept talking to Flynn after he fired Flynn? Well, you make a good point. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2326 "2017-09-20T14:02:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Key question is whether the indictment is in connection with Manafort’s activities on behalf of the Trump campaign. If it is, then the excitement is justified. If not, then it’s probably no big deal. Following up on this, [early indications](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/mueller-manafort-pressure-decade-investigation/index.html) are that Manafort is being targeted for “tax and financial crimes” going back as far as 2006. I don’t see this is a big deal, Trump-Russia-wise. [I know a guy who recently served some time for his involvement in a financial scam. He was swept up in an investigation of a big-time Ponzi schemer (this guy was a conduit for some of the other investors). He told a mutual friend of ours that the FBI/prosecutors told him that the Ponzi schemer was a shark and that he was a guppy. “We don’t ordinarily go after guppies. But if we cast our net for a shark and a guppy gets swept up in the same net, then we reel in the guppy too.” I think a similar phenomenon was at work in the Clinton-Starr case. The initial impetus was the notion that Clinton had arranged a job for Lewinsky via Vernon Jordan in order to buy her silence in the Paula Jones case. But they couldn’t pin that on Clinton, and what was left was lying about sex with Lewinsky. But once they were there, they were there.] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2327 "2017-09-20T14:16:08Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Strict hiring practices. _Extreme_ vetting. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2328 "2017-09-20T14:24:00Z")
Supposedly there are some documents of interest in a safe in McGahn’s office. I have to assume that Mueller is going to get his hands on these if he hasn’t already. But let’s suppose for a moment that the safe in question was in the White House in the master bedroom. Would Mueller be able to get a no-knock warrant to barge in the White House, march to the bedroom, and crack the safe? Or would Secret Service physically prevent this? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2329 "2017-09-20T15:00:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > _Tinkler, Tweeter, POTUS, Spy_ _applause_ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2330 "2017-09-20T15:11:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m sorry, but it is your claim. You may have said what you describe here, but you also said the following (emphasis added):So you did in fact claim that the only reason Trump would have any discussion with Manafort was to discuss Russia, and contrary to your subsequent denial here. And my response to that specific claim was to point out that Trump might have had discussions for other reasons. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Manafort and Trump continued to have wiretapped conversations well into 2017, months after Manafort had “resigned” from his position as campaign chairman and well into Trump’s presidency. Based on that, _I’d say it’s a safe bet **some** of the conversations were about the Russia investigation into the Trump campaign_. If there was nothing to worry about, why have _any_ discussion with a former campaign manager at all, especially one who was under investigation for his own ties to Russia? You’ve put your emphasis in the wrong place. I think the word, “some,” is plain language that is understood by most. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2331 "2017-09-20T15:12:33Z")
That doesn’t change the point in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2332 "2017-09-20T15:23:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s still entirely possible that there’s a buffer between Manafort and Trump. Whatever financial crimes perpetrated by Manafort or any other members of Trump’s team won’t necessarily implicate Trump. I suspect that the deeper interest in Manafort beyond August of last year is to ascertain whether or not Trump directed any of the activities by Manafort and any other associates, and to what extent. It’s one thing to have a political sleaze ball like Manafort working his international connections – it’s been known for a long time that he’s capable of this kind of work. But if Mueller’s team has audio, email, or other evidence suggesting coordination between Trump’s inner circle and Manafort, then that’s a bigger problem. I would be incredulous if Trump’s team didn’t put distance between itself and Manafort after last summer when he was pushed out of the campaign. As ever, the question becomes, “What did the president know and when did he know it?” There’s no question Trump is trying to put distance between him and Manafort _now_. But Trump doesn’t know when to shut up or when to sit tight. He knew there was an investigation by Comey and that didn’t stop him asking Comey to pledge loyalty or lay off Mike Flynn, and even firing Comey. And then actually saying the reason why on live television. He knew there was an investigation by Comey and that didn’t stop him asking Dan Coats and Mike Pompeo to try and do more to protect him from that investigation. He knew there was an investigation by Mueller and that didn’t stop him crafting a note for Don Jr. about the meeting with Russians. He knew there was an investigation by Comey/Mueller and that didn’t stop him threatening to fire and/or railing about Jeff Sessions being an “idiot” because Sessions wasn’t willing to break the law and refuse to recuse himself from the Russia investigation in order to protect him (Trump) from the consequences of the investigation. Doing what is in his best interests are simply beyond him if it requires impulse control. No incredulity required. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2333 "2017-09-20T15:24:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That doesn’t change the point in the slightest. Sure thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2334 "2017-09-20T15:53:28Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Sure thing. 🙂 Indeed. I should perhaps note that this is the second time in your recent posts that you’ve blatantly denied your earlier post (the prior one being about the # of Comey-Trump communications). Things that make you go hmmm … ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2335 "2017-09-20T16:48:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Indeed. > > I should perhaps note that this is the second time in your recent posts that you’ve blatantly denied your earlier post (the prior one being about the # of Comey-Trump communications). > > Things that make you go hmmm … If you haven’t said “hmm” yet this year you never will. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2336 "2017-09-20T19:39:36Z")
[Hmmmmmmm](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/us/politics/mueller-trump-russia.html?referer=https://t.co/zv4Pp09rJC?amp=1) “Mueller Seeks White House Documents Related to Trump’s Actions as President” > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, has asked the White House for documents about some of President Trump’s most scrutinized actions since taking office, including the firing of his national security adviser and F.B.I. director, according to White House officials. > > Mr. Mueller is also interested in an Oval Office meeting Mr. Trump had with Russian officials in which he said the dismissal of the F.B.I. director had relieved “great pressure” on him. > > … > > In recent weeks, Mr. Mueller’s office sent a document to the White House that detailed 13 different areas that investigators want more information about. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2337 "2017-09-20T19:47:47Z")
“What did the President know and when did he know it?” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2338 "2017-09-20T21:00:21Z")
It now looks more likely that Mueller is heading in the direction of investigating the crime of obstruction. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2339 "2017-09-20T21:21:18Z")
[Hmmmmmmmmm!](https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/manafort-offered-to-give-russian-billionaire-private-briefings-on-2016-campaign/2017/09/20/399bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html) “Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign” > [@](#): > > Less than two weeks before Donald Trump accepted the Republican presidential nomination, his campaign chairman offered to provide briefings on the race to a Russian billionaire closely aligned with the Kremlin, according to people familiar with the discussions. > > Paul Manafort made the offer in an email to an overseas intermediary, asking that a message be sent to Oleg Deripaska, an aluminum magnate with whom Manafort had done business in the past, these people said. > > “If he needs private briefings we can accommodate,” Manafort wrote in the July 7, 2016, email, portions of which were read to The Washington Post along with other Manafort correspondence from that time. > > The emails are among tens of thousands of documents that have been turned over to congressional investigators and Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s team as they probe whether Trump associates coordinated with Russia as part of Moscow’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 U.S. election. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2340 "2017-09-20T22:10:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Hmmmmmmmmm!](https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/manafort-offered-to-give-russian-billionaire-private-briefings-on-2016-campaign/2017/09/20/399bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html) > > “Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign” How are they going to explain _that_? What else could the offer be but an attempt to facilitate a potential _investment_ by a foreign billionaire in a US candidate? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2341 "2017-09-20T22:36:42Z")
Here’s how: “It’s not Trump, he isn’t looking at Trump. Comey told Trump 3 times… Blah blah blah.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2342 "2017-09-21T00:18:01Z")
Hmmmmmmm… Oh, darn, looks like [Manafort used his official campaign email account](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/20/paul-manafort-trump-campaign-email-ukrainian-operative-242949) to set up the above-mentioned briefings. I truly wish email security would’ve been more of an issue in 2k16, else we wouldn’t be in this mess! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2343 "2017-09-21T00:42:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Hmmmmmmm… > > Oh, darn, looks like [Manafort used his official campaign email account](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/20/paul-manafort-trump-campaign-email-ukrainian-operative-242949) to set up the above-mentioned briefings. > > I truly wish email security would’ve been more of an issue in 2k16, else we wouldn’t be in this mess! You need to know this cracked me up so hard I started coughing!! Glad I hadn’t swallowed a drink. 🙂 Thanks for the belly laugh! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=116) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=118)