# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 121
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2404 "2017-09-28T20:51:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Aspenglow** has repeatedly implied that Russia most likely turned to either CA or the Trump campaign, on the basis that it is a remarkable coincidence and in **his** opinion the most likely way that a poor country would carry out such a thing. > > There’s a whole page of **his** comments. Scroll up. Her. There’s a reason Russia has relied upon web-based warfare in its attacks on us. It’s cheap. Lotta bang for the buck. And it isn’t the general schisms in our cultural issues Russia would have difficulty divining on its own, even by simply reading our newspapers or watching the tee vee. Nor do I dispute Russians are masterful at cyber warfare. But it’s their awareness of specific individual voter data, and to which voters such disinformation was deployed, that I find an interesting (not remarkable) coincidence. That information is _not_ easily amassed. And if it were, why wouldn’t the Trump administration do everything in its power to help us learn how to prevent them learning such important information in the future? Surely you’ll agree they’ve been less than forthcoming or proactive in stopping any future attacks? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2405 "2017-09-28T20:59:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I doubt if that is generally accepted to be factually true. I’m not going to try to prove it’s false. If you’re making an assertion then you prove it’s true. Otherwise I’m happy to leave things as they are. > No, I’m not trying to put this in your mouth. I’ve not previously tried to put this in your mouth. If it will make you happy I’ll state explicitly that **Aspenglow has not said that the linkage between Cambridge Analytica (Trump) and the Russians was absolutely proved**. Happy? I can live with it. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But what you have said, most recently in this very post, is that the Russians clearly used a level of micro-targeting that they would not have access to without Cambridge Analytica or something like Cambridge Analytica. I’m saying that’s in question. And you’re right, I’m saying I don’t believe it is in question. I’m not saying it is yet proved, but I believe it is a reasonable conclusion to draw. In my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2406 "2017-09-28T21:03:40Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There’s a reason Russia has relied upon web-based warfare in its attacks on us. It’s cheap. Lotta bang for the buck. Yes. Russians are amazingly skillful aren’t they? A $100K supposed ad buy managing to swing a $3B election. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2407 "2017-09-28T21:09:22Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Her. Sorry about that – I will remember that in the future. > [@](#): > > That information is _not_ easily amassed. > > And if it were, why wouldn’t the Trump administration do everything in its power to help us learn how to prevent them learning such important information in the future? Surely you’ll agree they’ve been less than forthcoming or proactive in stopping any future attacks? There’s tons of information that is not easily amassed, and the specific job of intelligence agencies is to amass it. That does not mean that it is collected by what you think is the most likely route. For example: the data could have been stolen. It could have been passed on from someone on the inside. The Russians could have come up with their own analysis. There might have been no data used, as we might be only seeing the tip of an iceberg of a variety of cheap efforts that were essentially scattershot, or they maybe got lucky on this one. Maybe we are not aware of other ad campaigns that failed quite yet. Maybe they used middlemen to buy data from other, similar companies. And, as you suspect, maybe they used this particular company or campaign. But insinuating that one of these options is logically more likely than any other is absurd: it’s as baseless speculation as we saying that God’s eyes are probably blue, since it is such a pretty color. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2408 "2017-09-28T21:10:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. Russians are amazingly skillful aren’t they? A $100K supposed ad buy managing to swing a $3B election. Can you explain what this is supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2409 "2017-09-28T21:11:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. Russians are amazingly skillful aren’t they? A $100K supposed ad buy managing to swing a $3B election. I heard that a Trump campaign volunteer dropped off pamphlets at 25 houses in Michigan. Did his efforts swing the $3 billion election? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2410 "2017-09-28T21:19:10Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can you explain what this is supposed to mean? The Facebook ad buy that Zuckerberg “uncovered” recently was for $100K. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2411 "2017-09-28T21:22:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I heard that a Trump campaign volunteer dropped off pamphlets at 25 houses in Michigan. Did his efforts swing the $3 billion election? Nope. Neither did a $100K ad buy. Both were a drop in the ocean. But we’re having Congressional investigations into and general hysteria about one and not the other. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2412 "2017-09-28T21:23:15Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can you explain what this is supposed to mean? I think it means that **Okrahoma** has come to the conclusion that Trump’s election win is illegitimate because the Russians swung the election. I’m as surprised as anyone by this turn of events, but we live in crazy times. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2413 "2017-09-28T21:24:56Z")
Not saying they succeeded, saying they tried. I don’t like that much, don’t want to encourage that sort of shenanigans. You? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2414 "2017-09-28T21:25:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sorry about that – I will remember that in the future. > There’s tons of information that is not easily amassed, and the specific job of intelligence agencies is to amass it. That does not mean that it is collected by what you think is the most likely route. > > For example: the data could have been stolen. It could have been passed on from someone on the inside. The Russians could have come up with their own analysis. There might have been no data used, as we might be only seeing the tip of an iceberg of a variety of cheap efforts that were essentially scattershot, or they maybe got lucky on this one. Maybe we are not aware of other ad campaigns that failed quite yet. Maybe they used middlemen to buy data from other, similar companies. And, as you suspect, maybe they used this particular company or campaign. But insinuating that one of these options is logically more likely than any other is absurd: it’s as baseless speculation as we saying that God’s eyes are probably blue, since it is such a pretty color. In my view, all of those are possible, but not likely. I am not reaching my conclusion in a vacuum. My opinion is based on much more than just the links I previously provided. It includes: [ul] [li]Trump’s utter aversion to speaking against Russia and Russians;[/li][li]His failure to appoint a bi-partisan commission to investigate how Russia influenced our elections in 2016 and how to prevent such meddling in the future;[/li][li]Trump’s longstanding involvement with Russian mobsters and oligarchs, spanning decades;[/li][li]Both Trump’s and Jared Kushner’s need for funds to save their empires, Kushner’s in particular, demonstrating a potential desire to bargain;[/li][li]Kushner’s efforts to set up a “back channel” of communication with Russians in their own embassy, surprising even the Russians;[/li][li]The bragging by Kushner referenced in **Fubaya** ’s earlier post #2379;[/li][li]Various Russian spies and political operatives who were also caught bragging about stealing the American presidency;[/li][li]Trump’s comments about “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails…”[/li][li]The email to Donald Trump Jr. that states clearly that giving Trump’s campaign dirt on Hillary Clinton was, “ **part of** Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” and no one in the Trump campaign batted an eyelash about, “part of…”[/li][li]Trump’s firing of James Comey in a self-confessed effort to stop/hinder the FBI’s Russian investigation;[/li][li]Trump’s efforts to stymie the investigation as evidenced by his entreaties to Mike Pompeo and Dan Coats to make the Russia investigation go away;[/li][li]Trump’s initial refusal to fire Mike Flynn, even after being clearly and urgently advised he was compromised, together will all Trump’s efforts to protect him even after the firing;[/li][/ul] and many, many other facts. There is so much. There is also the matter of Trump’s general and consistent character. He has never been anything other than a shyster, a carnival barker, a Music Man. I don’t believe he would hesitate for a moment to sell out his country to Russia for personal gain. Taken altogether, I really have no difficulty in concluding there is a course of conduct that points rather blindingly to a conspiracy of coordinated efforts between Russia and the Trump campaign to elect Trump to the presidency. In my opinion. Obviously YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2415 "2017-09-28T21:28:32Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I think it means that **Okrahoma** has come to the conclusion that Trump’s election win is illegitimate because the Russians swung the election. I’m as surprised as anyone by this turn of events, but we live in crazy times. Thanks for making me laugh out loud. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2416 "2017-09-28T21:31:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The Facebook ad buy that Zuckerberg “uncovered” recently was for $100K. WWI started from a single bullet. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2417 "2017-09-28T21:38:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can you explain what this is supposed to mean? The figure is actually $150,000 of what is presently known from Facebook, and we don’t yet know if $150,000 is all they spent. I believe this sum was identified because it was paid for in rubles so was rather obvious. It means he doesn’t understand what a force multiplier an investment in Facebook ads is. They are literally pennies per each. $150,000 is a pretty impressive amount to spend on a cyber warfare campaign. If every dollar buys 50 ads, I mean… the math is pretty obvious. That’s 7.5 million ads. And of course that’s not counting the number of times they are republished from page to page by users sharing them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2418 "2017-09-28T21:43:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The figure is actually $150,000 of what is presently known from Facebook, and we don’t yet know if $150,000 is all they spent. I believe this sum was identified because it was paid for in rubles so was rather obvious. > > It means he doesn’t understand what a force multiplier an investment in Facebook ads is. They are literally pennies per each. $150,000 is a pretty impressive amount to spend on a cyber warfare campaign. If every dollar buys 50 ads, I mean… the math is pretty obvious. That’s 7.5 million ads. And of course that’s not counting the number of times they are republished from page to page by users sharing them. Facebook is an amazing marketing tool. I spend a few bucks on them, and I get a dozen new clients. It cost me less than $100 to rack up nearly 2000 likes to my business page. Now, not only is this $100-150k actually enough to reach quite a number of people, it is also just a single purchase of a single pro-trump marketing firm. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2419 "2017-09-28T21:49:01Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Russia wouldn’t need Trump to tell them what issues to exploit. > > If Trump told Russia what issues to exploit, they wouldn’t listen. They know better than him how propaganda works. 1. So? 2. And? Collusion or treason doesn’t need either of these to be true. Where are you going with this? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2420 "2017-09-28T22:24:02Z")
Well, then, a question? If GOP operatives innocently sold demographic data to people they thought were American Trump supporters, would that qualify as “collusion”? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2421 "2017-09-28T22:39:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, then, a question? If GOP operatives innocently sold demographic data to people they thought were American Trump supporters, would that qualify as “collusion”? Well, first, IANAL, but my understanding is that “collusion” is not a crime. Conspiracy is, though. The first element of Conspiracy requires a showing that two or more people were in agreement to commit a crime. That’s a threshold issue. If only one person is intending to commit a crime, then Conspiracy would not apply, so, no. Your innocent GOP operatives would be safe from such a charge in this layperson’s opinion. [923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States](https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us) I can’t think of any other crime that might substitute for the word, “collusion,” though there may be one. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2422 "2017-09-28T22:55:17Z")
[Hmmmmmm…](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/28/politics/jared-kushner-personal-email-account-senate-intelligence/index.html) \*\*Kushner didn’t tell senators about email account \*\* > [@CNN](#): > > Washington (CNN)In his closed interview with the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, White House senior adviser and presidential son-in-law Jared Kushner did not share the existence of his personal email account, which he has used for official business, CNN has learned. > > CNN has also learned that the chair and vice chair of the committee were so unhappy that they learned about the existence of his personal email account via news reports that they wrote him a letter via his attorney Thursday instructing him to double-check that he has turned over every relevant document to the committee including those from his “‘personal email account’ described to the news media, as well as all other email accounts, messaging apps, or similar communications channels you may have used, or that may contain information relevant to our inquiry.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2423 "2017-09-28T23:04:06Z")
[Hmmmmmmm…](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/twitter-identifies-russian-linked-accounts?utm_content=buffer6e7b4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) **Twitter IDs Nearly 200 Russia-Linked Accounts, Says RT Bought $274K In Ads** > [@](#): > > In an unattributed statement on the company blog published Thursday afternoon, Twitter disclosed that it had identified nearly 200 accounts associated with the same Facebook pages that were part of a Russian troll farm’s $100,000 ad buy on that platform. > > … > > The social media company also said in the statement that Kremlin-backed news outlet RT purchased $274,000 in advertisements in 2016. The company did not disclose how that figure compares to RT’s spending on Twitter in other years, or how it compares to Twitter ad budgets at news organizations of similar size. 2 Twitter ad buys, almost $400k. Further in the article it is claimed that over 1,800 different tweets were promoted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=120) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=122)