# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2644 "2017-10-25T01:20:49Z")
If there’s no collusion with Russia, why the desparate ramping up of the “There’s no collusion with Russia!” tweets? In the past couple of hours, a number of right-wingers (like [Laura Ingraham](https://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/922964153660256257) and [Fox News](https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/922978796059480065), to name a few) have weighed in with “Nuh-uh! It was Hillary!” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2645 "2017-10-25T02:32:20Z")
> [@digs](#): > > If there’s no collusion with Russia, why the desparate ramping up of the “There’s no collusion with Russia!” tweets? Also, why is Trump [refusing to initiate](http://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-sanctions-deadline-690730) the sanctions on Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2646 "2017-10-25T02:39:55Z")
> [@digs](#): > > If there’s no collusion with Russia, why the desparate ramping up of the “There’s no collusion with Russia!” tweets? > > In the past couple of hours, a number of right-wingers (like [Laura Ingraham](https://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/922964153660256257) and [Fox News](https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/922978796059480065), to name a few) have weighed in with “Nuh-uh! It was Hillary!” Apparently, although we’ve known about this since January, it is “news” now because [David Nunes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/fusion-gps-claims-devin-nunes-went-rogue-to-find-out-who-paid-for-steele-dossier), who supposedly recused himself from the Russia investigation because he’s Trump’s lapdog, subpoenaed GPS Fusion’s bank on his own for financial records to see who paid for the dossier. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2647 "2017-10-25T02:56:26Z")
Yawn. Maggie Halberstam of the NY Times is trying to salvage her decision to focus on a bogus email story while being duped, then scooped, on the political scandal of the century. Meanwhile, the big question is this: Why did the GOP, upon learning that there were numerous troubling connections between Trump and the Kremlin, drop the research? More specifically, who gave the order to stop? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2648 "2017-10-25T02:57:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Back to the task at hand. Trump’s campaign manager and all around guy who is royally fucked, Paul Manafort,[is facing a new money laundering investigation](https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-faces-another-money-laundering-probe-1508888106). In New York. New York State. State crimes which can’t be pardoned by Mr. Trump. > > Interesting that Mr. Trump has [insisted on personally interviewing](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/20/opinions/us-attorney-trump-interview-callan-opinion/index.html)candidates to lead these jurisdictions, which like most things here, is not normal. Not State. Federal. If State, Trump isn’t interviewing them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2649 "2017-10-25T13:34:29Z")
> [@digs](#): > > This is not how a normal, emotionally healthy person reacts to people trying to engage them in a conversation. I doubt if I would value much your psychological assessment in any event. But that it’s based on an apparent inability to understand a logical sequence does not add any confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2650 "2017-10-25T15:42:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I doubt if I would value much your psychological assessment in any event. But that it’s based on an apparent inability to understand a logical sequence does not add any confidence. Well, then understand [this logical sequence](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-data-guru-i-tried-to-team-up-with-julian-assange). The head of Cambridge Analytica, the company hired by the Trump campaign, offered his firm’s assistance to Wikileaks on their hacking of Clinton’s emails. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2651 "2017-10-25T15:48:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yawn. Maggie Halberstam of the NY Times is trying to salvage her decision to focus on a bogus email story while being duped, then scooped, on the political scandal of the century. > > Meanwhile, the big question is this: Why did the GOP, upon learning that there were numerous troubling connections between Trump and the Kremlin, drop the research? More specifically, who gave the order to stop? I believe it was originally someone running against him for the nomination. Once that was secured, there was no point to them funding it anymore. Enter the Clinton campaign. My bet is that there already is at least sealed indictment against Donald, probably on the obstruction of justice charge which should be a slam dunk. Mueller probably did so to counter the possibility of him getting fired and to prevent statutes of limitation from continuing to tick away. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2652 "2017-10-25T15:55:40Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Apparently, although we’ve known about this since January, it is “news” now because [David Nunes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/fusion-gps-claims-devin-nunes-went-rogue-to-find-out-who-paid-for-steele-dossier), who supposedly recused himself from the Russia investigation because he’s Trump’s lapdog, subpoenaed GPS Fusion’s bank on his own for financial records to see who paid for the dossier. And apparently they found what was known [since October of last year](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/): that after Trump won the nomination and GOP funding for anti-Trump oppo research dried up, the Dems picked it up and continued funding it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2653 "2017-10-25T16:13:42Z")
It’s been long known that “the Dems” picked it up. What’s new is that “the Dems” means the Clinton campaign and the DNC. (In the case of the initial Republican funding, it was apparently a Republican donor rather than an official campaign or RNC.) Doesn’t seem like any sort of earth-shattering revelation to me. But neither is much else that gets reported. Worth a headline or two, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2654 "2017-10-25T16:19:10Z")
Don’t much care who started it or why they did. Just glad that they did. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2655 "2017-10-25T16:20:38Z")
Never mind… ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2656 "2017-10-25T17:12:49Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Meanwhile, the big question is this: Why did the GOP, upon learning that there were numerous troubling connections between Trump and the Kremlin, drop the research? More specifically, who gave the order to stop? According to the WaPo article Steele was hired after Marc Elias picked up the funding. If true then there was no dossier relating to Russia while the republican donor was funding the oppo research. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2657 "2017-10-25T17:18:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Don’t much care who started it or why they did. Just glad that they did. Doesn’t sound like a huge deal to me either. But [some people apparently cared a lot about this](http://thehill.com/homenews/media/357079-new-york-times-reporters-blast-dems-over-trump-dossier-funding-claims). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2658 "2017-10-25T17:23:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I believe it was originally someone running against him for the nomination. Once that was secured, there was no point to them funding it anymore. Enter the Clinton campaign. Yes, “GOP” is too broad a stroke, my bad. However… > [@](#): > > Elias and his law firm, Perkins Coie, retained the company in April 2016 on behalf of the Clinton campaign and the DNC. Before that agreement, Fusion GPS’s research into Trump was funded by an unknown Republican client during the GOP primary. > > … > > Fusion GPS’s work researching Trump began during the Republican presidential primaries, when the GOP donor paid for the firm to investigate the real estate magnate’s background. > > Fusion GPS did not start off looking at Trump’s Russia ties but quickly realized that those relationships were extensive, according to the people familiar with the matter. > > When the Republican donor stopped paying for the research, Elias, acting on behalf of the Clinton campaign and the DNC, agreed to pay for the work to continue. A GOP donor paid for oppo research. During the time the GOP was paying, Trump/Russia ties started emerging. The GOP donor (unknown) stopped paying for the research in April. Then the Dems picked it up. So… Who was the donor? Had to be a supporter of one of the 16, at least one of those who still thought they had a chance prior to April, 2016 (ruling out Walker, Jindal, some others). A Cruz supporter? Jeb!? When was the donor told about Russia? When was his candidate told? (Don’t forget, Putin/Trump was an open joke in the summer of '16 among Republicans.) Who gave the order to drop the investigation? Was it at the donors behest, or his preferred candidates? Why did they not say anything about the Russian stuff? (I work for a research house and you do keep the client advised on how the research is going, so please don’t come back with “well, they didn’t know.” They knew.) Just askin’ questions… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2659 "2017-10-25T17:25:53Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > According to the WaPo article Steele was hired after Marc Elias picked up the funding. If true then there was no dossier relating to Russia while the republican donor was funding the oppo research. That’s not how I read it, see above. The article places the original Trump/Russia findings during the time of the GOP-donor controlled portion of the investigation. Steele was brought onboard to help verify and expand on what was already found. Or so I understood it. Clarification on this point would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2660 "2017-10-25T17:46:33Z")
Here’s how [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%E2%80%93Russia_dossier#History) puts it: > [@](#): > > According to reports, the dossier was created as part of opposition research on Trump. The investigation into Trump was initially funded by “Never Trump” Republicans and later by Democrats.[12][13][14] In September 2015, a wealthy Republican donor who opposed Trump’s candidacy in the Republican primary hired Fusion GPS, an American research firm, to do opposition research on Trump. For months, Fusion GPS gathered information about Trump, focusing on his business and entertainment activities. When Trump became the presumptive nominee in May 2016, the Republican donor withdrew and the investigation contract was taken over by an unidentified Democratic client.[14][15] After the election, Glenn R. Simpson of Fusion GPS “reportedly spent his own money to continue the investigation”.[5] > > In June 2016, it was revealed that the Democratic National Committee website had been hacked by Russian sources, so Fusion GPS hired Orbis Business Intelligence, a private British intelligence firm, to look into any Russian connections.[14] The investigation was undertaken by Orbis co-founder Christopher Steele, a retired British MI6 officer with expertise in Russian matters. Steele delivered his report as a series of two- or three-page memos, starting in June 2016 and continuing through December. He continued his investigation even after the Democratic client stopped paying for it following Trump’s election.[14] So the Republican donor funded general “business and entertainment” opposition research until he withdrew in May, at which point Democrats took over. In June the hacking was revealed, at which point Fusion hired Steele to look into that angle. Personally I think the whole issue JohnT is raising is a non-issue. But FWIW, it apparently also rests on incorrect factual grounds. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2661 "2017-10-25T17:51:05Z")
Well, as many would say… even in this thread… I will be satisfied to wait until a more trustworthy source than Wikipedia can be found. But if that’s your level of proof, then by all means, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2662 "2017-10-25T17:55:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s been long known that “the Dems” picked it up. What’s new is that “the Dems” means the Clinton campaign and the DNC. (In the case of the initial Republican funding, it was apparently a Republican donor rather than an official campaign or RNC.) > > Doesn’t seem like any sort of earth-shattering revelation to me. But neither is much else that gets reported. Worth a headline or two, I suppose. It’s a big deal, actually. A really big deal in one sense. If my understanding is correct, the DNC and/or Clinton’s campaign denied funding the research. Yet it seems like that might not have been completely true. In dealing with an authoritarian, whose goal is to destroy the idea that truth exists, it is necessary not to be as truthful as the authoritarian, but more so. In fact, critics of the authoritarian must be at the top of their game when it comes to credibility, whether we’re talking about the press or political opposition. Credibility is everything. Authoritarians aren’t necessarily believed 100% of the time; they just need to convince people that the truth cannot be known, and that no single person is necessarily more truthful or more believable than they are. They want people to believe “They’re all liars, they all do it. They’re all equally bad.” A truth vacuum, over time, gives authoritarians more power to fill it with misinformation, misdirection. Over time, they become the source of truth. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2663 "2017-10-25T17:58:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Well, as many would say… even in this thread… I will be satisfied to wait until a more trustworthy source than Wikipedia can be found. But if that’s your level of proof, then by all means, thanks. The Wiki article is full of footnotes, which you could easily look up - they’re even clickable. But if you don’t want to know and prefer to ask your Very Important Questions in blissfull ignorance, no one can force you. FWIW, the key parts of the Wiki timeline cited above are from a NYT article: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-intelligence.html?\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-intelligence.html?_r=0) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=132) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=134)