# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 144
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2864 "2017-11-01T23:05:22Z")
I looked on Pacer (a court document site) and I think this is the reason it’s called “Indictment B.” The Government had the indictment sealed last week and after the arrest asked that it be unsealed. After it was unsealed, the government filed another [request](https://ibb.co/jBc27b) to unseal the court docket and they also asked to replace the indictment with a redacted one they were submitting because there was some administrative info relating to the Special Council’s office at the top of the one that had been unsealed. The judge [granted](https://ibb.co/ekdELw) that and ordered that the unsealed indictment be replaced with a copy of the redacted indictment. I believe the redacted indictment is B. Maybe the government left an “It’s Mueller Time!” logo on the top of Indictment A. (edited for clarity) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2865 "2017-11-01T23:46:59Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I looked on Pacer (a court document site) and I think this is the reason it’s called “Indictment B.” > > The Government had the indictment sealed last week and after the arrest asked that it be unsealed. After it was unsealed, the government filed another [request](https://ibb.co/jBc27b) to unseal the court docket and they also asked to replace the indictment with a redacted one they were submitting because there was some administrative info relating to the Special Council’s office at the top of the one that had been unsealed. The judge [granted](https://ibb.co/ekdELw) that and ordered that the unsealed indictment be replaced with a copy of the redacted indictment. I believe the redacted indictment is B. > > Maybe the government left an “It’s Mueller Time!” logo on the top of Indictment A. > > (edited for clarity) I think you’ve got it. That makes all the sense. Thank you! LOL, I like to think “It’s Mueller Time!” is on some copy, somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2866 "2017-11-01T23:49:53Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > So it sounds like you guys just pull it out of your ass? Not sure why your post indicates such an uncharitable, rude perspective, but I’ll chalk it up to ignorance. Our goal was to create clarity and order out of complexity and chaos. Maintaining an intelligible court record is challenging and important. Leaving a good record for appeals courts, lawyers, the public and anyone else who wishes in the future to review it for whatever reason is a worthwhile objective. I’ve read transcripts of proceedings where less care was given to such details, and they went like this: Defense attorney: “(Witness) Mr. Smith, please refer to Defendant’s Exhibit Bee Bee Bee Bee Bee in front of you –“ Prosecutor: “I’m sorry, was that Exhibit Vee Vee Vee Vee Vee?” Defense attorney: “No, Bee Bee Bee Bee Bee…” Prosecutor: “Ah, thanks. Got it.” Defense attorney: “And also, Mr. Smith, directing your attention to Defendant’s Exhibit Eee Eee Eee Eee Eee Eee…” Judge: “Hang on, was that 6 Ees or 5 Ees?” We had good reasons for doing things as we did. Hopefully I’ve helped you to grasp one of the basics. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2867 "2017-11-02T16:11:28Z")
I don’t think this deserves its own thread, so I’ll put it here. To my knowledge, no one is saying the Trump admin had direct interaction with the various Russian troll farms who advertised on Facebook. Anyway, [this article](https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/) says: > [@](#): > > Last year, two Russian Facebook pages organized dueling rallies in front of the Islamic Da’wah Center of Houston, according to information released by U.S. Sen. Richard Burr, a North Carolina Republican. > > Heart of Texas, a Russian-controlled Facebook group that promoted Texas secession, leaned into an image of the state as a land of guns and barbecue and amassed hundreds of thousands of followers. One of their ads on Facebook announced a noon rally on May 21, 2016 to “Stop Islamification of Texas.” > > A separate Russian-sponsored group, United Muslims of America, advertised a “Save Islamic Knowledge” rally for the same place and time. The two groups showed up and the confrontation escalated into verbal attacks, although the article doesn’t say there was violence. The ads promoting the rallies cost about $200. This is what it takes to sow discord in America. Two hundred bucks and a few badly translated Facebook posts. I’m reminded of “The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street”, where the aliens pit the townspeople against each other by selectively shutting off and restoring power. The aliens don’t even need to control our power grid anymore. They just need to put together some memes and we’ll fight each other for their amusement. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2868 "2017-11-02T16:25:15Z")
Just in case though, they’ll keep trying to hack our power grid too. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2869 "2017-11-02T17:34:03Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > Just in case though, they’ll keep trying to hack our power grid too. We should be safe - after all we’ve got someone competent and responsible in charge of the Department of Energy oh shit we’re totally fucked ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2870 "2017-11-02T19:01:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > We should be safe - after all we’ve got someone competent and responsible in charge of the Department of Energy oh shit we’re totally fucked That’s not what the Department of Energy does. But don’t feel bad, the guy in charge of the Department of Energy didn’t know that either. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2871 "2017-11-02T20:27:40Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > …[this article](https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/) says: > > The two groups showed up and the confrontation escalated into verbal attacks, although the article doesn’t say there was violence. The ads promoting the rallies cost about $200. This is what it takes to sow discord in America. Two hundred bucks and a few badly translated Facebook posts. > > I’m reminded of “The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street”, where the aliens pit the townspeople against each other by selectively shutting off and restoring power. The aliens don’t even need to control our power grid anymore. They just need to put together some memes and we’ll fight each other for their amusement. Well, at least it put $200 into Zuckerberg’s pocket! But he says he IS serious about keeping the Russians from continuing to play us: > [@](#): > > “I’ve directed our teams to invest so much in security, on top of the other investments that we’re making, that it will significantly impact our profitability going forward,” Zuckerberg told investors during the call. “And I wanted our investors to hear that directly from me.” … > > “It’s a brilliant narrative,” Cramer said on “Squawk on the Street.” “Because what most people had been afraid of what that he was going to say he was going to boost security, but it would have no impact on earnings.” > > That would “make it absolutely chimerical,” Cramer said. “It would make it so it is just a show.” [Cramer: Mark Zuckerberg may have just saved Facebook from a government crackdown](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/02/cramer-zuckerberg-just-saved-facebook-from-a-government-crackdown.html) Cramer does make a good point, I think. But time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2872 "2017-11-03T04:14:16Z")
I’m feeling like the next time Mueller pops up, we’re going to encounter a few names from this article: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/behind-manafort-s-loans-chopper-pilot-who-flew-into-trump-orbit](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/behind-manafort-s-loans-chopper-pilot-who-flew-into-trump-orbit) Several of Manafort’s money laundering loans, quelle surprise, come from some long time friends of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2873 "2017-11-10T17:18:57Z")
Lewandowski gets a memory jog. Funny how when the truth comes out, it’s all “Russians? Oh, that insignificant thing. I just forgot.” > **[Corey Lewandowski Had a Russian Revelation on Live TV](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a13450481/corey-lewandowski-carter-page-russia/)** > > Oh, wait, he did know Carter Page. And George Papadopoulos. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2874 "2017-11-10T17:34:06Z")
Ah - that colludey stuff. Difficult to get off once it’s stuck, so I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2875 "2017-11-10T20:12:35Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Lewandowski gets a memory jog. Funny how when the truth comes out, it’s all “Russians? Oh, that insignificant thing. I just forgot.” > > [Corey Lewandowski Has a Russian Revelation on Fox News](http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a13450481/corey-lewandowski-carter-page-russia/) It’s amazing how the memories of Trump’s cronies are magically “refreshed” after someone testifies that they knew all about Trips to Russia, and had received emails about working with the Russians to influence the election… I think they all need a long, long quiet time in a secluded government run facility to enable them to “refresh” their memories on a wide variety of topics. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2876 "2017-11-10T20:25:14Z")
I’m guessing that e-mails from one Trump buttmunchkin to another don’t take place on a “public” system, they wouldn’t be using the .aol addy they get exciting offers from Nigerian princes… Guessing that all the shit from one particular addy is reliably presumed to be from someone On The Team. Can we therefore assume that one e-mail in that folder that says “Hey, just a heads-up, I won’t be in the office next week, I’m going to Russia”…might raise an eyebrow? Kind of thing you might remember? And if the sender is some coffee-felching nobody-burger, wouldn’t your next thought be “Who authorized this _schmuck_ to got to Russia? And nobody asked me shit? Huh?” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2877 "2017-11-12T10:32:39Z")
David Frum shared an opinion today in an article titled These Are Not The Actions Of An Innocent Man: “… A year after the 2016 election, the Trump administration has done nothing to harden U.S. election systems against future interference. It refuses to implement the sanctions voted by Congress to punish Russia for election meddling. The president fired the director of the FBI, confessedly to halt an investigation into Russia’s actions—and his allies in Congress and the media malign the special counsel appointed to continue the investigation. These are not the actions of an innocent man, however vain, stubborn, or uniformed. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” is the standard for criminal justice. It’s not the standard for counter-intelligence determinations. The preponderance of the evidence ever-more clearly indicates: In ways we cannot yet fully reckon—but can no longer safely deny—the man in the Oval Office has a guilty connection to the Russian government. That connection would bar him from literally any other job in national security except that of head of the executive branch and commander- in-chief of the armed forces of the United States. …” > **['These Are Not The Actions of an Innocent Man'](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/trump-putin-russia-election/545651/?google_editors_picks=true)** > > Trump’s after-the-fact complicity in Russia’s election meddling is abundantly clear.  ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2878 "2017-11-12T14:32:54Z")
Trump “[clarified](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-putin-denies-election-meddling-20171111-story.html)” his statements where he denied that the Russians were involved in the 2016 election: _“I believe that he feels that he and Russia did not meddle in the election. As to whether or not I believe it or not, I’m with our agencies.”_ The only way to square that circle is to say that Trump now believes that the Russian government meddled in the election but that Putin has no idea about it to this day. Is there anyone in the world who believes that this is actually possibly true? Not to mention that he threw Clapper, Brennan and Comey specifically under the bus yesterday for stating that Russia meddled in the election, which he now claims to believe a day later. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2879 "2017-11-12T17:37:57Z")
The man is an idiot. [ > [@](#): > > “What I believe is that we have to get to work. And I think everybody understood this that heard the answer. We have to get to work to solve Syria, to solve North Korea, to solve Ukraine, to solve terrorism,” Trump said in Vietnam. > > “And, you know, people don’t realize Russia has been very, very heavily sanctioned,” he continued. “They were sanctioned at a very high level, and that took place very recently. It’s now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken.” > > Trump said that those are “very important things.” > > “And I feel that having Russia in a friendly posture, as opposed to always fighting with them, is an asset to the world and an asset to our country, not a liability,” he said. ]([http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/359991-trump-on-russia-sanctions-having-russia-in-a-friendly-posture-is-an](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/359991-trump-on-russia-sanctions-having-russia-in-a-friendly-posture-is-an)) Well, that’s not suspicious at all! Don’t enforce sanctions. Give speech telling everyone that the sanctions have worked and the Russians are very sorry and we’ve got to figure out what to do about the Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2880 "2017-11-12T18:45:27Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > David Frum shared an opinion today in an article titled These Are Not The Actions Of An Innocent Man: > “… > A year after the 2016 election, the Trump administration has done nothing to harden U.S. election systems against future interference. It refuses to implement the sanctions voted by Congress to punish Russia for election meddling. The president fired the director of the FBI, confessedly to halt an investigation into Russia’s actions—and his allies in Congress and the media malign the special counsel appointed to continue the investigation. > These are not the actions of an innocent man, however vain, stubborn, or uniformed. > “Beyond a reasonable doubt” is the standard for criminal justice. It’s not the standard for counter-intelligence determinations. The preponderance of the evidence ever-more clearly indicates: In ways we cannot yet fully reckon—but can no longer safely deny—the man in the Oval Office has a guilty connection to the Russian government. That connection would bar him from literally any other job in national security except that of head of the executive branch and commander- in-chief of the armed forces of the United States. …” > ['These Are Not The Actions of an Innocent Man' - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/trump-putin-russia-election/545651/?google_editors_picks=true) Trump only knows how to campaign. Even in his business career he was all about schmoozing and connections; bringing together investors, getting his name on things, managing a brand and image. But did any of his businesses ever accomplish anything as a business? His casinos lost money. His airline went bankrupt. That Trump won’t harden election systems or implement sanctions doesn’t mean he’s guilty, it means he’s Trump.[sup]\*[/sup] He doesn’t care about what he does, or can do, as president. He just cares that he is, that he gets big crowds at his speeches and meets all the right people. It’s like his promise to build a wall on the border; he loves the promising but doesn’t care if it actually happens. Trump’s brilliance is that he a master of hype; he can come up with promises faster than his victims realize they’ve not being fulfilled. - His actions don’t mean he’s innocent, either. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2881 "2017-11-12T20:32:37Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > David Frum shared an opinion today in an article titled These Are Not The Actions Of An Innocent Man: > “…A year after the 2016 election, the Trump administration has done nothing to harden U.S. election systems against future interference… In ways we cannot yet fully reckon—but can no longer safely deny—the man in the Oval Office has a guilty connection to the Russian government. **That connection would bar him from literally any other job in national security except that of head of the executive branch and commander- in-chief of the armed forces of the United States.** …” > > ['These Are Not The Actions of an Innocent Man' - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/trump-putin-russia-election/545651/?google_editors_picks=true) Somewhat parenthetically: IF we survive Trump relatively intact, job one should be to put safeguards in place against further rogue Presidents–the same safeguards already in place, as Frum notes, for every other position in our government except the chief executive. Even if it takes a constitutional amendment to do it. When the Constitution was written, the framers knew that George Washington would be President. Both to avoid insulting him, and because they knew his integrity was unquestioned, they failed to specify things that we now know we need to specify. If we survive, we must make the effort to hold future Presidents to the same standards we maintain for all other governmental offices. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2882 "2017-11-12T20:51:07Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Somewhat parenthetically: IF we survive Trump relatively intact, job one should be to put safeguards in place against further rogue Presidents–the same safeguards already in place, as Frum notes, for every other position in our government except the chief executive. Even if it takes a constitutional amendment to do it. > > When the Constitution was written, the framers knew that George Washington would be President. Both to avoid insulting him, and because they knew his integrity was unquestioned, they failed to specify things that we now know we need to specify. > > If we survive, we must make the effort to hold future Presidents to the same standards we maintain for all other governmental offices. That’d be very difficult in terms of balance between policy and politics. Let’s say we put into place a relatively straight forward check – every party nominee undergoes a review for security clearance, just like any other classified government employee. But it’s the DoD that conducts these investigations, and they’re under the executive branch, meaning that a political nominee is in charge. If a candidate from the opposite party to the current president is rejected for this, it would awfully hard to prove that politics were not involved unless there’s some very clear incident that could be put forward publicly, and this probably would violate privacy rules. On the other hand, if from now on both parties agreed to such investigations before hand, and agreed to make the results public, then that might be a non-legislative way moving forward. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2883 "2017-11-13T00:20:08Z")
Maybe an IQ/critical thinking test for voters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=143) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=145)