# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 147
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2924 "2017-11-18T02:29:22Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > In today’s news, we have Jared [communicating](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kushner-failed-disclose-outreach-putin-ally-trump-campaign-n822021) with another Russian, Alexander Torshin. > > At an NRA Convention??? > > Why do Russians attend? Are foreigners common at NRA events? Ahh, I see now - this was [reported](https://thinkprogress.org/nra-and-russian-cousin-18f607d40240/) a year ago simple cooperation between two gun rights groups - the NRA and Moscow based The Right to Bear Arms. I’m sure that an authoritarian government very much wants to support an armed populace :dubious: > [@](#): > > On December 11, 2015, in the depths of a biting Moscow winter, The Right to Bear Arms hosted a delegation from its American counterpart, the NRA. David Keene, an NRA board member and former national president of the organization, flew to Russia to attend the event. Also at that meeting were NRA First Vice President Pete Brownell, CEO of the world’s largest firearm accessories supplier; NRA funder Dr. Arnold Goldschlager and his daughter, NRA Women’s Leadership Forum executive committee member Hilary Goldschalger; and Outdoor Life channel head Jim Liberatore. Perhaps the most famous guest at the gathering, trading his customary uniform for a black leather vest over a button-down shirt, was Milwaukee County Sheriff and Fox News regular David A. Clarke. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2925 "2017-11-18T02:33:50Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > In today’s news, we have Jared [communicating](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kushner-failed-disclose-outreach-putin-ally-trump-campaign-n822021) with another Russian, Alexander Torshin. > > At an NRA Convention??? > > Why do Russians attend? Are foreigners common at NRA events? [Russians](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-republican-right-found-allies-in-russia/2017/04/30/e2d83ff6-29d3-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.33fcbbeb0a80) [are](http://time.com/4696424/moscow-right-kremlin-republicans/). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2926 "2017-11-18T12:01:39Z")
Trump made millions laundering drug money in Panama: > **[Did Trump Launder Drug Money Through Panama?](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-drugs-corruption-panama-hotel-money-laundering-714891)** > > Some say it is time for Congress to begin investigating the president's finances and potential conflicts of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2927 "2017-11-18T14:12:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump made millions laundering drug money in Panama: > > [http://www.newsweek.com/trump-drugs-corruption-panama-hotel-money-laundering-714891](http://www.newsweek.com/trump-drugs-corruption-panama-hotel-money-laundering-714891) I saw that. I was wondering if there was any possible way he _didn’t_ know about the money laundering. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2928 "2017-11-18T14:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **jasg** : > > I’m sure that an authoritarian government very much wants to support an armed populace Well, why wouldn’t they? Armed populaces have historically been very good for authoritarian governments. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2929 "2017-11-18T15:00:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump made millions laundering drug money in Panama: > > [http://www.newsweek.com/trump-drugs-corruption-panama-hotel-money-laundering-714891](http://www.newsweek.com/trump-drugs-corruption-panama-hotel-money-laundering-714891) Say no to drugs; say yes to drug money. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2930 "2017-11-18T17:31:38Z")
I found it a bit interesting that the RNC decided to stop covering Trump’s legal costs, yesterday. After almost a year of doing so, unless the leadership recently changed (doesn’t seem to have), it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason for them to stop paying. They’ve known and accepted that it would be costly. I guess the three reasons that I can think of are: 1. The RNC Chairwoman decided, in light of Trump’s groping and philandering and the anti-misogyny movement going on, that the man could fend for himself. 2. As the employees of the RNC, the lawyers were beholden to the RNC, and so were advancing on the issue honestly, providing documents that could incriminate Trump and his family. The Trump clan has decided that they want/need more control of their legal counsel and told the RNC that they’d take over. 3. The RNC has learned something that has made them decide that the ship is going down no matter what, so why waste the money? I’m pretty sceptical on item #1. If you’re a politician and you have a message that could earn some political points with the public, then you’re not going to make a quiet, unexplained move like that. You’re also probably pretty comfortable with your demons. So, 2 or 3 seem reasonably likely. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-17/trump-to-pay-his-own-legal-bills-set-up-fund-to-cover-staff](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-17/trump-to-pay-his-own-legal-bills-set-up-fund-to-cover-staff) ---
**Author:** ![Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogantly_Ignorant)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2931 "2017-11-18T17:58:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I found it a bit interesting that the RNC decided to stop covering Trump’s legal costs, yesterday. > > After almost a year of doing so, unless the leadership recently changed (doesn’t seem to have), it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason for them to stop paying. They’ve known and accepted that it would be costly. > > I guess the three reasons that I can think of are: > > 1. The RNC Chairwoman decided, in light of Trump’s groping and philandering and the anti-misogyny movement going on, that the man could fend for himself. > 2. As the employees of the RNC, the lawyers were beholden to the RNC, and so were advancing on the issue honestly, providing documents that could incriminate Trump and his family. The Trump clan has decided that they want/need more control of their legal counsel and told the RNC that they’d take over. > 3. The RNC has learned something that has made them decide that the ship is going down no matter what, so why waste the money? > > I’m pretty sceptical on item #1. If you’re a politician and you have a message that could earn some political points with the public, then you’re not going to make a quiet, unexplained move like that. You’re also probably pretty comfortable with your demons. > > So, 2 or 3 seem reasonably likely. > > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-17/trump-to-pay-his-own-legal-bills-set-up-fund-to-cover-staff](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-17/trump-to-pay-his-own-legal-bills-set-up-fund-to-cover-staff) Of the choices you listed, I think #3 is most likely unless Trump’s paranoia has gotten to them. And Trump might be paranoid right now, but he also likes saving money. Plus, attorney/client privilege extends only to the person being represented. It doesn’t matter who is paying the bill. That weakens #2’s rationale. I could see the momentum of the indictments and the whiff of something else coming down forcing the RNC to quietly step aside before the lit fuse reaches the kegs of gunpowder. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2932 "2017-11-18T18:09:47Z")
As much as I hate this smarmy little excuse for an attorney general, [he does have a point.](https://www.westernjournalism.com/attorney-general-wins-the-day-with-hilarious-joke-highlighting-absurd-russian-collusion-scandal/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=gplus) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2933 "2017-11-18T18:35:46Z")
Wow, another reliable source of news and information! _Western Journalism_, you say? Can’t wait to find out more about\*\* Muslim Indoctrination of School Children Spreads Across Europe and United States\*\* [https://www.westernjournalism.com/muslim-indoctrination-of-school-children-spreads-across-europe-and-united-states/](https://www.westernjournalism.com/muslim-indoctrination-of-school-children-spreads-across-europe-and-united-states/) and, of course, **Right-Leaning Libertarian Rockers Making Music Great Again** [https://www.westernjournalism.com/right-leaning-libertarian-rockers-making-music-great/](https://www.westernjournalism.com/right-leaning-libertarian-rockers-making-music-great/) ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2934 "2017-11-18T18:59:15Z")
Wow, way to change the topic - question the source’s validity. All I said was Sessions had a point. Do you disagree with that, speaking only of his opening remarks? Would you believe I have NEVER been on that site before today? Have fun… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2935 "2017-11-18T18:59:29Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > As much as I hate this smarmy little excuse for an attorney general, [he does have a point.](https://www.westernjournalism.com/attorney-general-wins-the-day-with-hilarious-joke-highlighting-absurd-russian-collusion-scandal/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=gplus) Look, even if you don’t believe that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians (which they obviously did), the Russians clearly fucked with the election. And the administration has done nothing about it. And the attorney general is openly joking about it. This is not normal. This is grotesque. Unless that is his point, then he has no point. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2936 "2017-11-18T20:03:35Z")
I would characterize it more like the “Russians clearly fucked with people’s heads.” You know - like we’re doing here right now? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogantly_Ignorant)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2937 "2017-11-18T20:20:30Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I would characterize it more like the “Russians clearly fucked with people’s heads.” > > You know - like we’re doing here right now? 😉 Your characterization goes against every single United States intelligence agency. Saying they just fucked with people’s heads is a blatant attempt at marginalizing their conduct. This is the bedrock of American democracy we are discussing, it shouldn’t be trivialized. Are you a United States citizen? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2938 "2017-11-18T20:24:40Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I would characterize it more like the “Russians clearly fucked with people’s heads.” > > You know - like we’re doing here right now? 😉 It’s possible that the Russians set up Trump. It’s unlikely though. 1. The Trump campaign wasn’t viewed as likely to win. 2. Our spies have indicated that the word they were hearing inside the Russian government was that Russia wanted to stop Hillary, not help Trump. 3. Trump made it clear that he loves Putin. Why fuck up the ability for Trump to work with you if he does become President? Realistically, the only thing that the Russian investigation has done in regards to Russia’s interests is cause Congress (led by the GOP) to increase the sanctions being applied to Russia. In terms of pulling out of the international community, Trump did that on his own. In terms of passing the ACA repeal or building a wall, those were both undone by Trump himself. Russia does gain by a Trump Presidency compared to, say, a Pence Presidency. Pence would probably be better at competing against Russian interests. But they don’t gain anything by having Trump looking guilty of being in bed with Russia. And they definitely don’t gain anything by trolling the Liberal Media or whatever else. They have their own, Russian, media. Why would they care about making CNN look silly or whatever? Overall, why it is possible that they set up Trump to look suspicious, it’s not clear what the motivation for it would be, why they would think it worth the effort to do when they didn’t think he’d win, and you’d still want to investigate the situation to confirm that it was just the Russian trying to make Trump look suspicious and not something else. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2939 "2017-11-18T21:43:14Z")
Despite steady improvement by various means over the years, large swaths of the U.S. electorate consist of basically unenlightened people just struggling to get by. They are easily influenced as we have seen so many times in the past. Why anyone is surprised by this is a mystery to me. Reminds of an old adage, something about repeating things not learned. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2940 "2017-11-18T22:00:40Z")
> [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](#): > > Are you a United States citizen? Yes. As far as I know. Let me check Facebook real quick just to be sure… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2941 "2017-11-18T23:08:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I found it a bit interesting that the RNC decided to stop covering Trump’s legal costs, yesterday. > > After almost a year of doing so, unless the leadership recently changed (doesn’t seem to have), it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason for them to stop paying. They’ve known and accepted that it would be costly. > > I guess the three reasons that I can think of are: > > 1. The RNC Chairwoman decided, in light of Trump’s groping and philandering and the anti-misogyny movement going on, that the man could fend for himself. > 2. As the employees of the RNC, the lawyers were beholden to the RNC, and so were advancing on the issue honestly, providing documents that could incriminate Trump and his family. The Trump clan has decided that they want/need more control of their legal counsel and told the RNC that they’d take over. > 3. The RNC has learned something that has made them decide that the ship is going down no matter what, so why waste the money? > > I’m pretty sceptical on item #1. If you’re a politician and you have a message that could earn some political points with the public, then you’re not going to make a quiet, unexplained move like that. You’re also probably pretty comfortable with your demons. > > So, 2 or 3 seem reasonably likely. > > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-17/trump-to-pay-his-own-legal-bills-set-up-fund-to-cover-staff](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-17/trump-to-pay-his-own-legal-bills-set-up-fund-to-cover-staff) The Republican populists have been on a losing streak. There comes a point when they have to think about the wider party. And besides if Trump is _really_ a billionaire, then he ought to have the money to pay for his legal problems, right? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2942 "2017-11-18T23:26:05Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Look, even if you don’t believe that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians (which they obviously did), the Russians clearly fucked with the election. And the administration has done nothing about it. And the attorney general is openly joking about it. This is not normal. This is grotesque. Unless that is his point, then he has no point. Why would we expect the Atty General to care when he was probably aware of Russian meddling the entire time? It wouldn’t surprise me if Sessions had private conversations on how to collude legally, which is one reason I’ve been cautious about expecting findings of criminal wrongdoing at least as it applies to the management of the election itself. I’ve no doubt that Mueller will implicate people lying to federal investigators and probably getting people like Manafort and Flynn on laundering and other schemes. I’m not so sure, however, they’re going to find a blatant violation of campaign finance rules, election laws, or the Logan Act. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/2943 "2017-11-18T23:32:55Z")
It would be easier for me to believe that the Russians conned them both (Trump and Sessions) than to believe the Russians trusted them enough to let them take part in the secret conspiracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=146) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=148)