# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 161
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3204 "2017-12-05T21:47:50Z")
Regardless of whether a federal indictment of the President is allowable, it’s irrelevant, because it’s impossible. He’s the sole, uncontested head of the executive branch of the federal government, and thus any indictment of anyone under federal law is ultimately derived from his authority. That’s why the Constitution had to lay out a separate process for dealing with a criminal President. That said, however, absolutely nothing prevents a sitting President from being indicted, tried, convicted, or sentenced by a state. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3205 "2017-12-05T21:55:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Regardless of whether a federal indictment of the President is allowable, it’s irrelevant, because it’s impossible. He’s the sole, uncontested head of the executive branch of the federal government, and thus any indictment of anyone under federal law is ultimately derived from his authority. That’s why the Constitution had to lay out a separate process for dealing with a criminal President. > > That said, however, absolutely nothing prevents a sitting President from being indicted, tried, convicted, or sentenced by a state. Though actually being arrested and imprisoned would create an interesting crisis. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3206 "2017-12-05T22:11:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Regardless of whether a federal indictment of the President is allowable, it’s irrelevant, because it’s impossible. He’s the sole, uncontested head of the executive branch of the federal government, and thus any indictment of anyone under federal law is ultimately derived from his authority. That’s why the Constitution had to lay out a separate process for dealing with a criminal President. > > That said, however, absolutely nothing prevents a sitting President from being indicted, tried, convicted, or sentenced by a state. The Secret Service would probably prevent that. If there was any “arrest” involved, but maybe that’s why you left that part out. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3207 "2017-12-05T23:49:52Z")
I’m guessing that if a state were to go all the way and sentence a sitting President, they’d have to wait for him to get out of office for him to serve the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3208 "2017-12-05T23:57:56Z")
The President is not above the law\*. \*unless his party has a majority in Congress and has lost all contact with reality, honor, morality or shame. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3209 "2017-12-06T00:28:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Trump could quite conceivably have committed one or more high crimes and misdemeanors that are not criminal offenses That would be a neat trick. High crimes are crimes. Misdemeanors are crimes. That said, even before this loony-tune Congress, it was a fact of life that an impeachable offense is whatever Congress wants it to be, regardless of whether it is actually a high crime or misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3210 "2017-12-06T00:56:52Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That would be a neat trick. High crimes are crimes. Misdemeanors are crimes. [Usually, but not always.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors) The phrase is a term of art, and doesn’t mean what it would mean to a layman. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3211 "2017-12-06T02:03:45Z")
More information on impeachability: > **[The Impeachable Offense](https://www.lawfareblog.com/impeachable-offense)** > > Editor's Note: In 1974, a law professor named Charles L. Black published an extraordinary brief volume, entitled, Impeachment: A Handbook. It is the finest text on the subject I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3212 "2017-12-06T02:13:15Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > More information on impeachability: > > [https://lawfareblog.com/impeachable-offense](https://lawfareblog.com/impeachable-offense) Heh. > [@](#): > > Improper Campaign Tactics > I know of no offense the impeachability of which more depends on the exact case shown by evidence. There must come a point at which the deliberate harassment of political opponents—the bugging of their offices, the circulation of known lies about them, the attributing to them of statements they never made, and so forth—takes on the character of deliberate and knowing wrong, as highly corruptive of the political process as is the actual bribery of voters. On the other hand, politics is known by all not to be croquet, and a certain amount of roughing up is expected. One could construct an endless series of hypothetical cases, and try to pronounce on each; the part of wisdom, in any such situation, is to suspend judgment until a real case is made out ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3213 "2017-12-06T02:48:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That said, however, absolutely nothing prevents a sitting President from being indicted, tried, convicted, or sentenced by a state. He’s the commander in chief of the military. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3214 "2017-12-06T13:30:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Regardless of whether a federal indictment of the President is allowable, it’s irrelevant, because it’s impossible. He’s the sole, uncontested head of the executive branch of the federal government No. The criminal justice system is under the direction of the Attorney General, and the President cannot interfere with it. If he does, it’s obstruction of justice. There are myriad other constraints on the President that prevent him from having the dictatorial powers you purport him to have, but that’s another discussion. > [@](#): > > and thus any indictment of anyone under federal law is ultimately derived from his authority. No again. The authority is ultimately derived from We The People, and exercised through our employees. > [@](#): > > That’s why the Constitution had to lay out a separate process for dealing with a criminal President. It certainly did not. It provided a mechanism for other employees of Us The People to fire an official (not just the President; judges and Cabinet officials have been impeached too) before his term expires statutorily, if his conduct is so egregious as to require it in their (delegated) view. Impeachment _explicitly has no relation_ to the criminal justice system, other than the political pressure that a charge, indictment, etc. can put on them. Congress may choose not to impeach a criminally convicted official, and it can choose to impeach one who hasn’t even been charged, but the decision is solely one of statecraft and politics. The continuing notion that impeachment is just the mechanism for Presidents to be tried for crimes was widely spread by the Republicans during the Clinton matter, as way to try to vindicate their actions. But it’s still false. > [@](#): > > That said, however, absolutely nothing prevents a sitting President from being indicted, tried, convicted, or sentenced by a state. You got that right, at least. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3215 "2017-12-06T13:34:18Z")
I was wondering why the news yesterday that Trump Jr did, in fact, ask for assistance from that Russian lawyer did not get more play. Then I remembered: he confessed anyway 4 months ago. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3216 "2017-12-06T13:38:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [Usually, but not always.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors) The phrase is a term of art, and doesn’t mean what it would mean to a layman. I did not know that. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3217 "2017-12-06T13:56:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I was wondering why the news yesterday that Trump Jr did, in fact, ask for assistance from that Russian lawyer did not get more play. > > Then I remembered: he confessed anyway 4 months ago. The public has already been conditioned for news like this. Months ago, when we didn’t have as many facts as we have know, the Trump apologists were already laying the groundwork: 1. It was Don Jr, not Trump himself, so there’s plausible deniability 2. Collusion isn’t illegal 3. Lying to the press and the American people isn’t the same thing as lying under oath, so no big deal It’s unclear what bombshells could drop that would actually matter at this point. All of this stuff _should_ be damaging _politically_; that’s the way it’s supposed to work. But the world doesn’t work that way anymore. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3218 "2017-12-06T13:59:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I was wondering why the news yesterday that Trump Jr did, in fact, ask for assistance from that Russian lawyer did not get more play. > > Then I remembered: he confessed anyway 4 months ago. Yeah, I saw a snippet yesterday. Wasn’t that revealed in the Senate investigation? I would think that this is something that Mueller would want to look into, as it just screams of conspiracy, or at least a conspiracy mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3219 "2017-12-06T14:01:59Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I was wondering why the news yesterday that Trump Jr did, in fact, ask for assistance from that Russian lawyer did not get more play. > > Then I remembered: he confessed anyway 4 months ago. I generally wouldn’t trust the Russians to provide an honest account. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3220 "2017-12-06T14:03:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Secret Service would probably prevent that. If there was any “arrest” involved, but maybe that’s why you left that part out. They, like all other federal LEO’s, are sworn to preserve/protect/defend the _Constitution_. You can imagine them all going rogue if you like, but you can imagine anything. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3221 "2017-12-06T14:16:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I generally wouldn’t trust the Russians to provide an honest account. That was my thought as well… as a witness, the Russian lawyer is likely to be considered unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3222 "2017-12-06T14:33:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They, like all other federal LEO’s, are sworn to preserve/protect/defend the _Constitution_. You can imagine them all going rogue if you like, but you can imagine anything. Except constitutional scholars disagree on this point, and there is no precedent to follow. Saying “defend the constitution” as if it were some magic words that everyone agrees on in every instance is so simplistic as to be nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3223 "2017-12-06T14:41:43Z")
You can handwave away anything you like, too. Feel free. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=160) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=162)