# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 163
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3244 "2017-12-08T23:05:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I have to admit, whenever I see something that reads “CNN Exclusive” I am increasingly skeptical. It’s obvious their team is trying to develop their investigative journalism skills on the fly having been a bunch of morning pop tarts for the better part of 15 years, but they keep flubbing bigly. They used to be representative of the standard in broadcast journalism and investigative reporting - going back to the late 1980s and early 1990s. But they’re just not good at this stuff and I’d rather they just leave it to the Washington Post or New York Times or some other entity that really has an apparatus in place. The mainstream media really has to be careful about reporting hot information. They make a lot of mistakes with breaking news like shootings, but they need to be extra careful when it comes to Trump because he and his supporters use it for propaganda purposes. Fox News just had to correct a couple of errors made about a Roy Moore accuser. ABC made their recent error because they didn’t wait to confirm, but it sounds like CNN’s error was their sources getting the date wrong. They probably should have asked to see the email before reporting. It’s an interesting piece of information, but the corrected date makes it not particularly important (though that could change). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3245 "2017-12-08T23:22:27Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > The mainstream media really has to be careful about reporting hot information. They make a lot of mistakes with breaking news like shootings, but they need to be extra careful when it comes to Trump because he and his supporters use it for propaganda purposes. Fox News just had to correct a couple of errors made about a Roy Moore accuser. ABC made their recent error because they didn’t wait to confirm, but it sounds like CNN’s error was their sources getting the date wrong. They probably should have asked to see the email before reporting. It’s an interesting piece of information, but the corrected date makes it not particularly important (though that could change). They also recently reported a “big” thing on how Goldstone kept spamming Trump Jr. with ideas on what all the campaign could do (then mentions that no one in the campaign seems to have paid any attention to it nor done anything). But the title of the article was something like, “Previously undiscovered followup on Russian lawyer meeting!” That made it sound like there had been a second meeting, or at least some sort of post-meeting back-and-forth. I recognize that the headline writers are different people than the ones that write the articles and that the headline writer is just trying to get people to click links, but you’re not doing your organization any good if you are regularly selling nothingburgers as a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3246 "2017-12-11T16:37:50Z")
3 different “bombshell” stories have turned out to be erroneous in the last week or so alone. (Those being, 1) the ABC article about pre-election contacts, 2) the Bloomberg article about an alleged subpoena of Trump financial records, and now 3) the Wikileaks pre-release contact.) On another note, an article in Slate magazine that could almost be directed at certain posters to this thread: [Democrats: Please, Please Stop Sharing Seth Abramson’s Very Bad Tweets](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/sharing-seth-abramson-not-once-not-ever.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3247 "2017-12-11T18:15:52Z")
Just for comparison’s sake, could you point out any of the lies that have gushed from Old Faithless on an hourly basis that he has corrected? Not those that he has reversed his opinion without explanation, but those where he has explicitly stated “I was wrong, here’s the facts.”? Take your time, just give us the top ten. Five. Three. One? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3248 "2017-12-11T18:22:06Z")
This is even worse than most tu quoque arguments, in that it fails at the “tu”, before you even get to the “quoque”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3249 "2017-12-11T19:07:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > 3 different “bombshell” stories have turned out to be erroneous in the last week or so alone. (Those being, 1) the ABC article about pre-election contacts, 2) the Bloomberg article about an alleged subpoena of Trump financial records, and now 3) the Wikileaks pre-release contact.) > > On another note, an article in Slate magazine that could almost be directed at certain posters to this thread: [Democrats: Please, Please Stop Sharing Seth Abramson’s Very Bad Tweets](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/sharing-seth-abramson-not-once-not-ever.html) Making mistakes and correcting them is why the press is real news. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3250 "2017-12-11T19:13:51Z")
Compare this to how Breitbart corrected a story when it turned out they wrote an article about[the wrong Loretta Lynch](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever). That’s why they are fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3251 "2017-12-11T19:15:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > 3 different “bombshell” stories have turned out to be erroneous in the last week or so alone. (Those being, 1) the ABC article about pre-election contacts, 2) the Bloomberg article about an alleged subpoena of Trump financial records, and now 3) the Wikileaks pre-release contact.) > > On another note, an article in Slate magazine that could almost be directed at certain posters to this thread: [Democrats: Please, Please Stop Sharing Seth Abramson’s Very Bad Tweets](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/sharing-seth-abramson-not-once-not-ever.html) I have been wondering whether the White House, after almost a year, has finally gotten around to spreading nonsense to track down who is the source of various leaks. (I think I read somewhere that this is called the “blue dye test”, but Google is refusing to confirm.) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3252 "2017-12-11T20:01:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I have been wondering whether the White House, after almost a year, has finally gotten around to spreading nonsense to track down who is the source of various leaks. I doubt it. Especially as most of this information is not controlled by the WH. There’s been speculation that the Trump Jr story was leaked by Democrats on the Intelligence Committee (where he testified about this issue about a week ago). I would think that it’s mostly overenthusiastic reporters and sources. On a related note, CNN today [walked back](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/10/politics/jeff-sessions-fbi-russian-contacts/index.html) some of their [prior reporting](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/24/politics/jeff-sessions-russian-officials-meetings/index.html) on Sessions’ Russia contacts. Not strictly incorrect reporting, but it’s also consistent with something of a slant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3253 "2017-12-11T21:25:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This is even worse than most tu quoque arguments, in that it fails at the “tu”, before you even get to the “quoque”. So, you could have directly and clearly pointed out any number of such instances, but it is beneath your dignity to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3254 "2017-12-11T21:28:06Z")
No, it’s that I’ve not claimed or implied that there were any such instances, so there’s no reason for me to point to any. IOW, there was zero point to your post, other than indulging yourself in some of your customary sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3255 "2017-12-11T21:48:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > 3 different “bombshell” stories have turned out to be erroneous in the last week or so alone. (Those being, 1) the ABC article about pre-election contacts, 2) the Bloomberg article about an alleged subpoena of Trump financial records, and now 3) the Wikileaks pre-release contact.) > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Making mistakes and correcting them is why the press is real news. Atlantic editor David Frum makes a point about the difference between a press that makes mistakes–and acknowledges and corrects them–and an Administration (and its handmaiden ‘news’ channel, Fox) that never admits mistakes: > [@](#): > > David Frum, a former George W. Bush speechwriter and current senior editor at the Atlantic, said Sunday that people should trust the media because they made mistakes. > > Frum appeared on CNN’s Reliable Sources, when he told Brian Stelter: > > “The mistakes are precisely the reason people should trust the media. Astronomers make mistakes all the time because science is a process of discovery of truth. Astrologers never make mistakes or at least they never own up to them because what they are offering is a closed system of ideology and propaganda,” Frum told Stelter. [http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/atlantic-editor-mistakes-are-why-people-should-trust-the-media/](http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/atlantic-editor-mistakes-are-why-people-should-trust-the-media/) Trump/Fox = astrology A press that has the integrity to admit and correct errors = astronomy It’s a fair analogy, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3256 "2017-12-11T23:28:23Z")
[From Glenn Greenwald](https://theintercept.com/2017/12/09/the-u-s-media-yesterday-suffered-its-most-humiliating-debacle-in-ages-now-refuses-all-transparency-over-what-happened/) > [@Glenn Greenwald](#): > > All media outlets, of course, will make mistakes. The Intercept certainly has made our share, as have all outlets. And it’s particularly natural, inevitable, for mistakes to be made on a highly complicated, opaque story like the question of the relationship between Trump and the Russians, and questions relating to how WikiLeaks obtained the DNC and Podesta emails. That is all to be expected. > > But what one should expect with journalistic “mistakes” is that they sometimes go in one direction and other times go in the other direction. That’s exactly what has not happened here. Virtually every false story published goes only in one direction: to be as inflammatory and damaging as possible on the Trump-Russia story and about Russia particularly. At some point, once “mistakes” all start going in the same direction, toward advancing the same agenda, they cease looking like mistakes. > > No matter your views on those political controversies, no matter how much you hate Trump or regard Russia as a grave villain and threat to our cherished democracy and freedoms, it has to be acknowledged that when the U.S. media is spewing constant false news about all of this, that, too, is a grave threat to our democracy and cherished freedom ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3257 "2017-12-11T23:38:45Z")
That’s a valid point, but the notion that the media is motivated by antipathy to Trump is one of two possible explanations. The other explanation is that the media is motivated by being first to break a big story. There’s no incentive to make an error in downplaying the Russia story, because that makes the story less of a story and less of a scoop for you and your media outlet. There’s a big incentive to make an error in playing it up, because that makes it more of a story and more of a scoop for you and your outlet. I would guess that both factors are in play here, but I suspect that the Big Scoop angle is the more important factor. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3258 "2017-12-12T00:53:32Z")
To be a real answer to a question the “antipathy to trump” must be out of sync with the actions of trump, or unreal in some way. “Antipathy to trump” is not a reason for anything that’s ever happened, so far. There are words that apply to the media here: Commensurate, proportional etc. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3259 "2017-12-12T01:26:51Z")
Greenwald’s attempts at fairness and objectiveity missed something rather important: the administration is making absolutely no effort to be factual with the press or the public. The antipathy toward Trump is not just because of how he makes the press feel; it’s the fact that a presidential administration tells outrageous lies on an almost daily basis and repeatedly questions the norms of our democracy. It’s the president who’s gone one direction since before he was even elected president; the media is simply responding in kind. Greenwald’s point about mistakes going both ways is valid in other times, when the administration is not communicating with the media with phrases like “alternative facts” or saying “We will not be questioned.” The Trump administration has deliberately taken the narrative in a specific direction. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3260 "2017-12-12T02:33:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s a valid point, but the notion that the media is motivated by antipathy to Trump is one of two possible explanations. The other explanation is that the media is motivated by being first to break a big story. > > There’s no incentive to make an error in downplaying the Russia story, because that makes the story less of a story and less of a scoop for you and your media outlet. There’s a big incentive to make an error in playing it up, because that makes it more of a story and more of a scoop for you and your outlet. > > I would guess that both factors are in play here, but I suspect that the Big Scoop angle is the more important factor. I think their antipathy makes them much more willing to report a story before they can truly confirm that the story is correct…if it’s damaging to the administration. The bigger point is that multiple sources confirmed that the date of the email to Trump Jr. was before the Wikileaks release when, in fact, it was after the release. That means more than one person was deliberately misleading the press and should be called out. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3261 "2017-12-12T05:16:41Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > [From Glenn Greenwald](https://theintercept.com/2017/12/09/the-u-s-media-yesterday-suffered-its-most-humiliating-debacle-in-ages-now-refuses-all-transparency-over-what-happened/) > > > [@Glenn Greenwald](#): > > > > All media outlets, of course, will make mistakes. The Intercept certainly has made our share, as have all outlets. And it’s particularly natural, inevitable, for mistakes to be made on a highly complicated, opaque story like the question of the relationship between Trump and the Russians, and questions relating to how WikiLeaks obtained the DNC and Podesta emails. That is all to be expected. > > > > But what one should expect with journalistic “mistakes” is that they sometimes go in one direction and other times go in the other direction. That’s exactly what has not happened here. Virtually every false story published goes only in one direction: to be as inflammatory and damaging as possible on the Trump-Russia story and about Russia particularly. At some point, once “mistakes” all start going in the same direction, toward advancing the same agenda, they cease looking like mistakes. > > > > No matter your views on those political controversies, no matter how much you hate Trump or regard Russia as a grave villain and threat to our cherished democracy and freedoms, it has to be acknowledged that when the U.S. media is spewing constant false news about all of this, that, too, is a grave threat to our democracy and cherished freedom Who’s to say that all the mistakes have been anti-Trump, least of all Greenwald? When the press makes a mistake that makes Trump look bad, Trump (or a supporter) calls them on it and raises a big hue and cry. And when they err on something that clears Trump, what happens, or what could we expect to happen? Does anyone think Trump, or someone in the know, would come forward to correct it? We know about certain mistakes because someone has an interest in making sure we know about them. That doesn’t mean those are the only mistakes there are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3262 "2017-12-12T07:36:28Z")
Well, if memory serves, the corrections came from the same people who reported. Were the reporters “caught lying”, or did they do the “catching” themselves? The Trumpniks don’t want to “correct the record”, they don’t want anybody talking about it at all! ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3263 "2017-12-12T09:17:57Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I have been wondering whether the White House, after almost a year, has finally gotten around to spreading nonsense to track down who is the source of various leaks. (I think I read somewhere that this is called the “blue dye test”, but Google is refusing to confirm.) Barium meal test, also known as the [Canary Trap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=162) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=164)