# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3384 "2018-01-01T01:01:13Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > That’s my point. Why did he start denying in the first place? We now know that his campaign had advance information that the Russians intended to meddle in the election. If I read that as entirely innocent, and that there was no collusion and no involvement with the campaign, then why bother to deny it? It wouldn’t be the campaign’s fault that the Russians decided to meddle. Why lie about the size of the crowd at his inauguration, or Clinton’s popular vote win being due to voter fraud? When Trump opens his mouth to speak, he is not thinking about communicating true information, he is thinking of what he can say to make himself look good. If Russian meddling influenced the election, it means that Trump is not the campaign genius that won the presidency single-handed. Therefore, it did not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3385 "2018-01-01T02:11:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Why lie about the size of the crowd at his inauguration, or Clinton’s popular vote win being due to voter fraud? When Trump opens his mouth to speak, he is not thinking about communicating true information, he is thinking of what he can say to make himself look good. If Russian meddling influenced the election, it means that Trump is not the campaign genius that won the presidency single-handed. Therefore, it did not happen. That would be a reason to deny any meddling at all, but he didn’t do that. He admitted that there was meddling, but denies it was Russia, blaming China or some 400 pound hacker in a basement. It only makes sense if he knew there was wrong doing involving Russia. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3386 "2018-01-01T15:59:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Of course not. > > But charging a president with a crime is a high-impact political act. **So the bar is going to be higher than charging some random shmo**. > > So if you have a he-said-she-said situation, and you personally believe the guy alleging guilt, you might be quicker to charge the guy if it’s someone who is not president, as compared to possibly unsettling the nation by charging a president. > > No difference at all legally, but prosecutors have discretion to consider extra-legal considerations especially if the situation is itself somewhat ambiguous. > > [ETA: Democrats were very big into this argument when it was Bill Clinton’s neck out there. Though they may have changed their tune about it lately.] Bolding mine. The ‘bar’ should be set much lower than for your random shmo. The POTUS should understand the law and how to follow it. Trump has spent his entire life circumventing it. Trump belongs behind bars, not moving around them. We have a criminal in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3387 "2018-01-01T20:47:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Turns out it was Papadopoulos … drunkenly running his mouth to an Australian diplomat. Maybe that was the real motivation behind Trump launching that a tirade at Australian PM Turnbull in their first phone call? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3388 "2018-01-01T20:58:36Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Maybe that was the real motivation behind Trump launching that a tirade at Australian PM Turnbull in their first phone call? Nah. Trump is just permanently pissed-off at anyone he believes fails to be deferential enough towards him. Trump probably didn’t realize at that point that the Australians had that piece of information (about Papadopoulos running his mouth), let alone that the Australians had shared it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3389 "2018-01-02T00:53:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > How did the Russia investigation start? Was it the dossier that the GOP now pretends was the initiating event? Nope. Turns out it was [Papadopoulos](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html?_r=0), the coffee boy, drunkenly running his mouth to an Australian diplomat. “Australian Diplomat” is a pretty understated way of referring to Alexander Downer by the way (raising my eyebrows at the article, not you…). Try “former Liberal Party leader, former Foreign Minister for over a decade, Alexander Downer…” If you substitute in, say, Condoleeza Rice or Colin Powell in that statement, that gives you a feel for the level we’re talking about. That’s a hell of a guy for “coffee boy” Papadopolous to be having a beer with. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3390 "2018-01-02T01:51:42Z")
True enough. Not sure the average guy off the street, even one with an Aussie passport, could get an audience with the current High Commissioner to the United Kingdom without an introduction from some connected political source. How much contact or connections you’d need for a big night on the tiles at the Kensington Wine Rooms with Alex is above my pay grade, but you’d have to think it wasn’t a first meeting. Of course Papadopoulos might have a supply of fishnet stockings he was looking to offload. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3391 "2018-01-02T02:05:06Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Of course Papadopoulos might have a supply of fishnet stockings he was looking to offload. …thus ensuring Downer WOULD rat him out to the FBI at the first possible opportunity… ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3392 "2018-01-02T02:08:50Z")
[Actually, according to The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia?CMP=share_btn_tw), British intelligence (the GCHQ) started reporting contacts between Trump’s team well before Papdopoulos spilled the beans. > [@](#): > > GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3393 "2018-01-02T02:38:38Z")
Some low-level drunk guy rambling off at a Kensington bar about having dirt on Hillary probably got a few chuckles from intelligence agents. But when an MI6 agent approached them and said “Check this out: Putin is trying to disrupt your elections”, I’m guessing they started listening then. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3394 "2018-01-03T03:40:02Z")
The fusion GPS guys, who commissioned the infamous dossier, wrote an [op ed with some juicy tidbits](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region). “As we told the Senate Judiciary Committee in August, our sources said the dossier was taken so seriously because it corroborated reports the bureau had received from other sources, including one inside the Trump camp.” “Republicans have refused to release full transcripts of our firm’s testimony, even as they selectively leak details to media outlets on the far right. It’s time to share what our company told investigators.” “The intelligence committees have known for months that credible allegations of collusion between the Trump camp and Russia were pouring in from independent sources during the campaign. Yet lawmakers in the thrall of the president continue to wage a cynical campaign to portray us as the unwitting victims of Kremlin disinformation.” “We suggested investigators look into the bank records of Deutsche Bank and others that were funding Mr. Trump’s businesses. Congress appears uninterested in that tip: Reportedly, ours are the only bank records the House Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3395 "2018-01-03T03:44:22Z")
It’s going to take awhile, but I see at least one charge, and probably several, of obstruction of justice in Devin Nunes’ future. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3396 "2018-01-03T03:49:23Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [Actually, according to The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia?CMP=share_btn_tw), British intelligence (the GCHQ) started reporting contacts between Trump’s team well before Papdopoulos spilled the beans. That’s what I read from multiple sources several months ago. And it wasn’t just the Brits. It was quite a number credible reports from several allied foreign intelligence agencies. They all predated the Steele dossier by months. In reality, the Steele dossier simply corroborated reports the FBI already had from a number of different sources. This is easily confirmed by the fact that the FBI began their investigation in July of 2016. The Steele dossier wasn’t brought to their attention until October 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3397 "2018-01-03T15:54:41Z")
The meeting in the Trump tower was “[treasonous](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_reddit_is_fun)”, according to Steve Bannon. “Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad shit, and I happen to think it’s all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.” “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3398 "2018-01-03T16:15:51Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The meeting in the Trump tower was “[treasonous](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_reddit_is_fun)”, according to Steve Bannon. > > “Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad shit, and I happen to think it’s all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.” > > “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.” I really enjoyed that article. > [@](#): > > Trump is not spared. Wolff writes that Thomas Barrack Jr, a billionaire who is one of the president’s oldest associates, allegedly told a friend: “He’s not only crazy, he’s stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3399 "2018-01-03T17:00:45Z")
Breitbart is going full [Trump committed treason](https://twitter.com/eyokley/status/948598003090280448) today. (Link takes you to a tweet showing a screenshot of the Breitbart home page. Don’t want to link to BB itself, honestly. Some of the current headlines: BOOK: STEVE BANNON CALLS KUSHNER, MANAFORT, DON JR. TRUMP TOWER MEETING WITH RUSSIANS ‘TREASONOUS’… by BREITBART NEWS …REPORT: BANNON SAYS MUELLER INVESTIGATION WILL TARGET KUSHNER, MANAFORT’S ‘GREASY’ MONEY LAUNDERING DEALS by BREITBART NEWS ) … you know, pure and total speculation here, but I wonder if Bannon has had a “talk” with Mueller, recently. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3400 "2018-01-03T17:08:19Z")
Hard to believe Bannon saying these things. Is he trying to create a little separation for a potential run himself? One would think if he was working with Mueller that he’d be a bit more tight-lipped. But boy are circular firing squads fun to watch from the outside. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3401 "2018-01-03T17:11:02Z")
Nothing that mysterious. He got dumped by someone he’d attached himself to, and now he’s bitter about it. It’s like making revenge posts on Facebook about your old boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3402 "2018-01-03T17:14:03Z")
…Preferably from _far_ on the outside. Remember, a circular firing squad is using the entire world as a backstop. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3403 "2018-01-03T17:43:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The meeting in the Trump tower was “[treasonous](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_reddit_is_fun)”, according to Steve Bannon. > > “Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad shit, and I happen to think it’s all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.” > > “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.” > [@Procrustus](#): > > I really enjoyed that article. Same; thanks for the link, **FYL**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=171)