# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 177
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3524 "2018-01-11T00:47:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Somehow this “Republican case” that “the whole investigation is sourced by and based upon The Dossier” managed to slip past me, as I don’t recall having ever heard of it (prior to it being “debunked” by Fusion assertions). > > **What I do recall hearing a lot of is the notion that the dossier was given undue influence due to sympathetic Obama people and Deep Staters in the FBI and DOJ. But that’s something else entirely**. This has NOTHING to do with ‘Sympathetic Obama people’, AND everything to do with our current CIC. And this is a lot of the problem with current attitudes. Those that want justice aren’t doing it for Obama or Clinton. They are doing it because trump needs to be held to the standards of ANY POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3525 "2018-01-11T00:58:56Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It’s been a [conservative talking point](http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/10/rep-gaetz-new-revelations-about-fusion-gps-fbi-trump-russia-dossier) for a couple months now. > > This goes back to the [October news](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/25/fusion-gps-fallout-dnc-clinton-fbi-take-heat-after-bombshell-that-dems-funded-trump-dossier.html) that the Clinton campaign funded it. > > These are US congressmen saying this, so they’re smart enough not to outright say the dossier was the impetus behind the FBI investigation, they’re just asking questions… Wasn’t it initially funded by Ted Cruz, until he saw the light and jumped on the Trumpwagon? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3526 "2018-01-11T01:26:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Somehow this “Republican case” that “the whole investigation is sourced by and based upon The Dossier” managed to slip past me, as I don’t recall having ever heard of it (prior to it being “debunked” by Fusion assertions). > > What I do recall hearing a lot of is the notion that the dossier was given undue influence due to sympathetic Obama people and Deep Staters in the FBI and DOJ. But that’s something else entirely. For most practical purposes, in the real world and dealing with the impressionable and short-term memory masses, those are the same statement. Over time, you morph the public debate from, “Oh my god, the President is publicly encouraging the Russians to infiltrate the private communications of his opponent and spread that to the general public!” to “Oh my god, this one company released a document asserting that the President was working with Russia, and that’s what this is all about!” The first is difficult to explain away. The latter gives you a nice scapegoat to sacrifice and call everything clear. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3527 "2018-01-11T02:16:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Wasn’t it initially funded by Ted Cruz, until he saw the light and jumped on the Trumpwagon? No, it was originally funded by the _Washington Free Beacon_, but that’s really beside the point. Everyone knew it was conservative oppo research started during the primary and picked up by liberals for the general, but the discovery of the connection to the Clinton campaign specifically gave the conservative media a chance to create a new narrative – that the dossier is political in nature and therefore the Trump/Russia investigation is a political witch hunt. Just look at this [horribly written opinion piece from Fox](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/01/06/real-problem-with-fusion-gps-steele-dossier.html): > [@](#): > > But now it’s clear that the dossier was nothing more than an expensive political dirty trick by the Russians, the Democratic Party and Clinton campaign. > [@](#): > > We now know that the Fusion GPS dossier was nothing more than propaganda, much of it fed to Steele and Fusion GPS by current and former Russian intelligence operatives. In short, the Democrats, the Clinton campaign and the media facilitated the Russians’ most effective campaign tactic to undercut Americans’ faith in two important institutions: government and the media. > [@](#): > > If the fake dossier funded by Democrats spurred on the Russia investigation and was in many ways the impetus for the probe, this calls into question the entire legitimacy of the investigation. > [@](#): > > If the lawmakers keep pulling the thread on Steele’s work of fiction, going where it leads them, it will take them to where some of us have suspected: a deeply corrupt Department of Justice and FBI badly in need of reform, and a media that must be forced to confront their own massive mistakes and report on one of their greatest failures. The layers of delusion are astounding, but this is what conservatives are being instructed to think. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3528 "2018-01-11T14:52:47Z")
Worrying, if true: > **[Trump Administration Gives Lucrative Waiver To Trump’s Bank](https://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/trump-administration-waives-punishment-convicted-banks-including-deutsche-which)** > > President Donald Trump owes millions to Deutsche Bank, which was one of five convicted banks that just saw its punishment waived by the Labor Department. Apparently, a week or two after it was announced that Deutsche had been issued subpoenas by Mueller, their fines were waived by the Executive branch. This would seem to be a fine for rigging global interest rates, rather than for money laundering, but it’s still $2.12 billion back to the company: > **[Deutsche Bank fined record $2.5 billion over rate rigging](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutschebank-libor-settlement/deutsche-bank-fined-record-2-5-billion-over-rate-rigging-idUSKBN0NE12U20150423)** > > U.S. and British authorities fined Deutsche Bank $2.5 billion, accused Germany's largest lender of obstructing regulators and ordered it to fire seven employees in the eighth global settlement of alleged benchmark interest rate rigging. I think it’s safe to say that it needs to be investigated how this decision came to be made. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3529 "2018-01-11T15:02:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Worrying, if true: > > [Trump Administration Waives Punishment For Convicted Banks, Including Deutsche — Which Trump Owes Millions | IBTimes](http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/trump-administration-waives-punishment-convicted-banks-including-deutsche-which) > > Apparently, a week or two after it was announced that Deutsche had been issued subpoenas by Mueller, their fines were waived by the Executive branch. > > This would seem to be a fine for rigging global interest rates, rather than for money laundering, but it’s still $2.12 billion back to the company: > > [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutschebank-libor-settlement/deutsche-bank-fined-record-2-5-billion-over-rate-rigging-idUSKBN0NE12U20150423](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutschebank-libor-settlement/deutsche-bank-fined-record-2-5-billion-over-rate-rigging-idUSKBN0NE12U20150423) > > I think it’s safe to say that it needs to be investigated how this decision came to be made. Really? Per the article, the fines weren’t permanently waived, they were just postponed for 3 years, and Deutschebank wasn’t singled out, it was all 5 banks fined for the LIBOR thing, and the postponement is, oddly for Trump, just a continuation of an Obama era postponement. Furthermore, there’s really no suggested mechanism by which Trump could benefit re: the Mueller investigation, short of some handshake agreement for the bank to somehow withhold documents, which nobody has even suggested took place. This feels like a page out of a Republican playbook, speculating about a conspiracy and then demanding an investigation to find evidence of it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3530 "2018-01-11T15:08:27Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Really? Per the article, the fines weren’t permanently waived, they were just postponed for 3 years […] The article doesn’t say anything at all about fines being waived or postponed. The article says that “part of the punishment” was waived for 3 years. That part is not any fines but rather “_Under laws designed to protect retirement savings, financial firms whose affiliates have been convicted of violating securities statutes are effectively barred from the lucrative business of managing those savings._” It’s not clear how much potentially lost revenue was involved. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3531 "2018-01-11T15:27:23Z")
Clearly I’m pretty ignorant about this punishment, the waivers, and how banks work in general, but I don’t think any of that detracts from my point. This feels a bit like Uranium One, point out a bunch of innocuous facts about a deal, heavily imply that a complicated conspiracy _could_ possibly explain those facts, and then demand an investigation to find evidence of said conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3532 "2018-01-11T15:30:29Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Really? Per the article, the fines weren’t permanently waived, they were just postponed for 3 years, and Deutschebank wasn’t singled out, it was all 5 banks fined for the LIBOR thing, and the postponement is, oddly for Trump, just a continuation of an Obama era postponement. Furthermore, there’s really no suggested mechanism by which Trump could benefit re: the Mueller investigation, short of some handshake agreement for the bank to somehow withhold documents, which nobody has even suggested took place. > > This feels like a page out of a Republican playbook, speculating about a conspiracy and then demanding an investigation to find evidence of it. I didn’t see the line that it was a delay not a full waiver, so you may be correct that I misinterpreted this. However, I could argue, financially, that an extension is very much like a steep reduction. If I give you $1b today, then I am out $1b. If I give you $1b in a year, then I will have made ~8% on it in investments. I earn $80m, lose the $1b, and so I’m only out $920m in the long run. If I get to keep it for 3 years, then I have only lost $740m, because I will have made $260m on the capital over that term. A 3 year extension on a $2.12 billion fine is equivalent to a reduction by $551m, if I am doing my math right. That said, it could well be that it was always expected that the banks wouldn’t be able to hand over all of that money on time. It might be normal to put them on some sort of payment schedule and to keep waiving the full amount every time it’s about to come due, to keep them on the tap. The fine may have been set with the expectation that it would be paid off over many years. But it should also be said that with Trump’s financial and legal entanglement, it’s worth being certain that he was not a part of this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3533 "2018-01-11T15:45:01Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Clearly I’m pretty ignorant about this punishment, the waivers, and how banks work in general, but I don’t think any of that detracts from my point. It doesn’t detract from your point. But it’s worth being factual. (For some reason Sage Rat persists in discussing the supposed deferred fines. :shrug: ) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3534 "2018-01-11T15:46:24Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That said, it could well be that it was always expected that the banks wouldn’t be able to hand over all of that money on time. It might be normal to put them on some sort of payment schedule and to keep waiving the full amount every time it’s about to come due, to keep them on the tap. The fine may have been set with the expectation that it would be paid off over many years. Based on F-P’s correction and trying to read the announcement on the federal register, it may be more like they were given a deadline to comply with some standard, and this is an extension of the deadline. I don’t know, it’s all way beyond my financial literacy. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But it should also be said that with Trump’s financial and legal entanglement, it’s worth being certain that he was not a part of this decision. But this isn’t some nebulous claim that Trump benefits financially from an executive action, which I’m sure he does all the time, based on his refusal to divest himself. This is a specific accusation that this is some kind of quid pro quo in connection with the Mueller investigation. There’s absolutely no evidence of that, nor is there any mechanism suggested by which it could happen. In any case, if anyone’s going to investigate whether executive actions like this sought to hinder Mueller’s investigation, it’s going to be Mueller. Which makes these rumblings about a conspiracy and calls to investigate it even more pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3535 "2018-01-11T15:50:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It doesn’t detract from your point. But it’s worth being factual. (For some reason Sage Rat persists in discussing the supposed deferred fines. :shrug: ) I’m happy to have my own ignorance fought. I was typing when you posted the further clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3536 "2018-01-11T15:54:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m happy to have my own ignorance fought. I was typing when you posted the further clarification. Well I guess that’s the “some reason”. My apologies for any negative implication. [FWIW, I think you are one of the best posters posting to these Russia threads.] ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3537 "2018-01-11T19:12:32Z")
Steve Bannon’s lawyers say he will be fully cooperating with the Mueller probe. > **[Steve Bannon Lawyers Up As Russia Investigators Ready to Pounce](https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-bannon-lawyers-up-russia-investigators-ready-to-pounce)** > > Trump’s former chief strategist has largely avoided the spotlight of the Russia probe—until now. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3538 "2018-01-11T19:14:07Z")
Am I reading too much into Kushner’s newfound interest in [prison reform](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/11/trump-prison-reform-roundtable-jared-kushner-initiative/1023747001/)? I mean, I understand that he has already solved the problems in the middle east, and the opioid epidemic, but making prisons more pleasant is not usually a big part of the GOP platform. It’s being spun as an interest of his because his father is a felon, but I love to think that he has some personal interest in the topic as well. (I’m probably reading too much into it!) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3539 "2018-01-11T19:17:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Steve Bannon’s lawyers say he will be fully cooperating with the Mueller probe. Of course. He has nothing left to lose, and sweet revenge to gain. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3540 "2018-01-11T19:26:16Z")
Huh. Not at all surprised about Bannon’s new-found appreciation of the Deep State. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3541 "2018-01-11T19:29:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Steve Bannon’s lawyers say he will be fully cooperating with the Mueller probe. > [Steve Bannon Lawyers Up... as Russia Investigators Get Ready to Pounce](https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-bannon-lawyers-up-russia-investigators-ready-to-pounce) Not sure this makes a difference, but FWIW, your link is about the House intelligence Committee, not Mueller’s probe. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3542 "2018-01-11T21:30:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not sure this makes a difference, but FWIW, your link is about the House intelligence Committee, not Mueller’s probe. …in which Republicans attempt to distract with ‘leaks’ at every opportunity and Democrats actually try to get at the root of the problem. Interesting theater, but nothing more. I’m waiting for Mueller to get around to Bannon’s wily ass. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3543 "2018-01-11T21:32:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not sure this makes a difference, but FWIW, your link is about the House intelligence Committee, not Mueller’s probe. Less than a year to go until it’s the House Judiciary Committee working the problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=176) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=178)