# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 182
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3624 "2018-01-20T19:40:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Some possibilities: > > 1. The Senate had released theirs, on the basis that it wasn’t that big a deal, not realizing that the House version was so drastically different. Politically, the House had to follow suit. > 2. The Senate had released theirs, on the basis that there was a public call for it and it would become problematic if they didn’t. Politically, the House had to follow suit. > 3. Not _all_ of the House Intelligence Committee Republicans are stupid or crazy. > 4. With the tax push done, the Republican party can afford to dirty themselves a bit right now on the basis that the next big crisis will be the Midterm elections and the general public will forget all about Simpson’s testimony by then. > 5. With the funding crisis, Trump’s affair in the news, and the fact that the first set of testimony having not amounted to much, they may have figured that the second release would be crowded out of the headlines and not too many people would take a hard look at it. > 6. They figured that they could just counter with the Nunes memo. Those are well-reasoned guesses (except #3!). Seriously, I think Conaway is more reasonable than the others, but not enough that he would have willingly gone along with the release. And how could they not know what was in the transcript and how damaging it is, when they were all present during the testimony? I disagree that the Senate Judiciary Committee Simpson transcript wasn’t that big a deal. It solidly destroyed the notion that the Steele dossier was the basis for the FBI’s investigation into Trump and his Russian connections. It also made clear that neither Simpson or Steele sought approval or permission from the Clinton campaign to go to the FBI and share what they had learned. Both of those facts provide important pushback to those false Republican talking points. It also made Grassley look like exactly the partisan snake he is. I think your posited #5 and #6 are the most likely explanations for release of the House committee Simpson transcript. Goodness knows pulling the wool over the eyes of many Trump supporters isn’t hard. Witness Trump’s contemptible efforts through Twitter to recast the Women’s March as a celebration of his “accomplishments” in his first year in office. Doesn’t get more feeble than that. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3625 "2018-01-20T20:51:21Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Those are well-reasoned guesses (except #3!). Seriously, I think Conaway is more reasonable than the others, but not enough that he would have willingly gone along with the release. I have been ignoring the House Intelligence Committee to-date, so I have no opinion on this. > [@](#): > > And how could they not know what was in the transcript and how damaging it is, when they were all present during the testimony? The Senate Judiciary might not have known what was in the House Intelligence transcript, when the Senate Judiciary released theirs. > [@](#): > > I disagree that the Senate Judiciary Committee Simpson transcript wasn’t that big a deal. It solidly destroyed the notion that the Steele dossier was the basis for the FBI’s investigation into Trump and his Russian connections. It was never a thing that was in doubt. We have a wide variety of people from GW Bush to Obama to James Comey to Benjamin Wittes to Diane Feinstein all confirming that the FISA process is a pretty tight ship held to very strict rules. The Steele dossier is patently insufficient for a FISA warrant. You would need a pretty good amount of corroborating evidence to support it before you could take it to court, and that would probably take a couple of months at minimum before you could start to support some of its allegations. The timeline doesn’t match up for that. So either there was already sufficient corroborating evidence, or the dossier itself wasn’t even a significant aspect of the investigations at that date. The only other alternative from “the dossier wasn’t the impetus” is that FISA is fubar. And that’s probably why Nunes had to sit in his memo until after 702 was re-upped. There was a risk that he’d have taken out FISA with his conspiracy fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3626 "2018-01-20T21:21:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I think I read that it’s a four page memo, so it shouldn’t be too hard to read. I expect I would read it (though I’ve not read the several-hundred page testimony transcripts). But in any event, I wouldn’t expect to make too much of it until I see expert commentary, which would add context and any relevant facts that may have been omitted. Three things that you might consider investigating, when it comes out: 1. Who approved removing the unmasking changes that were put in the 702 renewal bill? 2. How did Nunes vote on 702 renewal? 3. is it plausible that Nunes discovered his issues with how warrants and wiretaps are attained and used under FISA only after the 11th of January, 2018? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3627 "2018-01-20T22:33:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It was never a thing that was in doubt. We have a wide variety of people from GW Bush to Obama to James Comey to Benjamin Wittes to Diane Feinstein all confirming that the FISA process is a pretty tight ship held to very strict rules. > > The Steele dossier is patently insufficient for a FISA warrant. You would need a pretty good amount of corroborating evidence to support it before you could take it to court, and that would probably take a couple of months at minimum before you could start to support some of its allegations. The timeline doesn’t match up for that. So either there was already sufficient corroborating evidence, or the dossier itself wasn’t even a significant aspect of the investigations at that date. > > The only other alternative from “the dossier wasn’t the impetus” is that FISA is fubar. > > And that’s probably why Nunes had to sit in his memo until after 702 was re-upped. There was a risk that he’d have taken out FISA with his conspiracy fiction. Just to clarify, I was already aware of all this. I have said so in this and/or other threads. I was referring to the Republicans’ ongoing, tedious falsehood that the Steele dossier was the catalyst for the investigation. Simpson’s testimony to the Senate committee went to the heart of this issue. And anyone interested enough to read the transcript could not in any way continue to make such a claim with credibility. What you say about Nunes sitting on his memo till after 702 was reauthorized makes sense. He’s such a loon. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3628 "2018-01-21T01:28:56Z")
My theory is completely different. I think Trump went ballistic when the House Intelligence Committee summoned Hope Hicks for an interview. I think this action crossed a Trumpian “red line”. And I think Trump set his sights on his toady Nunes. Nunes, desperately trying to appease Trump, agreed to all his demands. The interview with Hicks was postponed. But I think the White House also gave him this memo and demanded that he put his name on it Kind of a replay of what happened last year. But these people don’t learn. This is Stupid Watergate. And I think once it’s released, it will become blindingly obvious who wrote the memo. My guess is Steven Miller. And my guess is he didn’t make any attempt to alter his style and that he used the same phrases and rhetoric that was found in the other memos and speeches he’s written. And the press will realize this and it will be a scandal for about 2 days until someone does something even dumber. Because this is Stupid Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3629 "2018-01-23T22:21:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The ACLU is one of the entities clamoring for release of the Nunes memo. Well, they did have strong ties to Russia for decades, after all… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3630 "2018-01-23T22:33:27Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Well, they did have strong ties to Russia for decades, after all… In the 1930’s (assuming the allegations are true)? Try something relevant to the modern world next time. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3631 "2018-01-23T23:01:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > In the 1930’s (assuming the allegations are true)? > > Try something relevant to the modern world next time. Lighten up, Francis. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3632 "2018-01-24T02:57:35Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Lighten up, Francis. Yeah because you joke _so_ much. Nice try, though. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3633 "2018-01-24T06:32:28Z")
Current rumor is that [Gates has decided to cooperate with Mueller](https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/rick-gates-new-attorney-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html). They were charging him with money laundering, right? Wonder what he has on Trump. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3634 "2018-01-24T06:48:04Z")
More likely he is tipping in Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3635 "2018-01-24T16:46:30Z")
Though, I had earlier suggested that Gates/Manafort might lead to these guys: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/behind-manafort-s-loans-chopper-pilot-who-flew-into-trump-orbit](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/behind-manafort-s-loans-chopper-pilot-who-flew-into-trump-orbit) If so, that starts to leave the Manafort orbit and enter the Trump zone. I don’t know if we know whether Gates ever worked for Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3636 "2018-01-24T20:17:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Though, I had earlier suggested that Gates/Manafort might lead to these guys: > > [Behind Manafort’s Loans, a Chopper Pilot Who Flew Into Trump’s Orbit - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/behind-manafort-s-loans-chopper-pilot-who-flew-into-trump-orbit) > > If so, that starts to leave the Manafort orbit and enter the Trump zone. > > I don’t know if we know whether Gates ever worked for Trump? Unless Manafort flips, I doubt it’ll be very easy to connect Trump to that personally. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3637 "2018-01-24T20:46:59Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Unless Manafort flips, I doubt it’ll be very easy to connect Trump to that personally. Why would Manafort be more necessary than Gates? If Gates flips on Calk, Lorber, LeBow, Mnuchin, etc. then that’s a pretty decent roster of names for you to work on to try and get to flip on Trump. You only need one guy that doesn’t want to go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3638 "2018-01-24T23:24:24Z")
[Trump Says He Is Willing to Speak Under Oath to Mueller](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-mueller.html) > [@The New York Times](#): > > President Trump said on Wednesday that he was willing to speak under oath to Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential campaign. > > “I’m looking forward to it,” Mr. Trump said of talking to Mr. Mueller, ending months of speculation over whether he would submit to questions from the special counsel, who is also believed to be looking into whether the president sought to thwart the inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3639 "2018-01-25T00:15:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Unless Manafort flips, I doubt it’ll be very easy to connect Trump to that personally. Hasn’t Manafort flipped and sung already? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3640 "2018-01-25T01:17:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hasn’t Manafort flipped and sung already? No. That’s why trial dates are set for him and Gates. If Gates has changed his mind and enters a plea, look for a new date to be set for him to enter that plea and the trial date to be vacated. Or if Mueller’s team wants Gates to enter a conditional plea, meaning they want him to do some things before they’re willing to make a sentencing recommendation, then Gates’ trial date could be continued for a period of time to see if Gates will live up to the plea agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3641 "2018-01-25T01:21:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Unless Manafort flips, I doubt it’ll be very easy to connect Trump to that personally. The partnership of Manafort and Gates goes back about 8 years, if memory serves. What Manafort knows, Gates likely also knows. Gates is definitely dangerous to Manafort – and to Trump as well, I suspect. Manafort appears to have been a(nother) go-between between Russians and Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3642 "2018-01-25T04:36:59Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I don’t know if we know whether Gates ever worked for Trump? I don’t know if he worked for Trump in business, but Gates was Trump’s deputy campaign manager when Manafort was manager. It seems like he’s Manafort’s sidekick in everything. Anything that Manafort knows, Gates probably knows too. Manafort reportedly didn’t really know Trump before the campaign though. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3643 "2018-01-25T04:53:33Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I don’t know if he worked for Trump in business, but Gates was Trump’s deputy campaign manager when Manafort was manager. It seems like he’s Manafort’s sidekick in everything. Anything that Manafort knows, Gates probably knows too. Manafort reportedly didn’t really know Trump before the campaign though. The issue is whether he has documentation. Otherwise it’s just hearsay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=181) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=183)