# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 193
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3844 "2018-02-13T12:56:39Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Okay, let’s assume you’re not in the employ of the Russians. That would be the rational choice. > [@](#): > > One of Putin’s primary goals is to sow mistrust in the American people with regard to our democratic system. He wants us to believe our system is just as corrupt as his. Is that what Putin told you? Or is this speculation? > [@](#): > > And one thing that I’ve heard more and more of recently is that he is succeeding, because many Americans are now doing the work for him. Who needs bots or paid trolls to undermine our faith in democracy when some of our own citizens are willing to do that work for free? True enough - people have been reveling in sharing ‘information’ about Trump that comes directly from the Kremlin through Steele on behalf of the DNC. “Source A—to use the careful nomenclature of his dossier—was “a senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure.” Source B was “a former top level intelligence officer still active in the Kremlin.” And both of these insiders, after “speaking to a trusted compatriot,” would claim that the Kremlin had spent years getting its hooks into Donald Trump.” If sowing distrust among Americans was Putin’s goal, he succeeded in spades among the anti-Trump crowd in swallowing and disseminating this stuff. > [@](#): > > Of course your supposition ignores what we actually know about the relationships between Trump’s campaign and the Russians, and the absence of similar relationships in the Clinton campaign. How does the evidence that the DNC paid for information from Russians to undermine Trump ignore anything? I’m actually citing facts which are relevant to the supposed campaign by Russians to weaken US democracy. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3845 "2018-02-13T13:29:30Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Is that what Putin told you? Or is this speculation? I, for one, never believe any claim made about Putin or Russia unless I’ve heard it from the man himself. Moreso when he delivers it with that little half-smirk that says “what I am telling you is the absolute truth and you should believe every word.” ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3846 "2018-02-13T13:42:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I, for one, never believe any claim made about Putin or Russia unless I’ve heard it from the man himself. Moreso when he delivers it with that little half-smirk that says “what I am telling you is the absolute truth and you should believe every word.” Good for you! On a site where people have been fighting ignorance since 1973 it’s a good idea to separate matters of actual fact from idle speculation. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3847 "2018-02-13T14:21:38Z")
> [@BobLibDeb](#): > > He was head of the KGB. Of course he murdered people, it’s right in the position description when he applied for it. > [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > how do you know this? “Know” was not the language I used. Putin was head of the FSB, the Russian successor to the KGB, for a little over a year from 1998 to 1999. Who did Putin clearly murder or order the murder of during this time or before? He may have murdered someone directly or ordered their murder, but it certainly isn’t clear. Unlike his time after that when he became president. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3848 "2018-02-13T14:53:52Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > What point do you think you’re making? > > Is it that Manafort and Gates are innocent because they aren’t mentioned in the dossier? > > Or is it that the dossier is untrue because it doesn’t specifically mention Manafort and Gates? > > So far as I can tell, your statements amount to nothing more than meaningless twaddle. Interesting. My statement was that the dossier “was focused on people like Carter Page, **Paul Manafort** , and Michael Cohen”, and you somehow managed to extract from that that “Manafort and Gates are innocent because they aren’t mentioned in the dossier” and “the dossier […] doesn’t specifically mention Manafort”. Interesting. Considering this level of confusion on your end, I can’t imagine that any further response would be worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3849 "2018-02-13T15:08:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He was head of the KGB. Of course he murdered people, it’s right in the position description when he applied for it. Putin was never “head of the KGB”. He retired from the KGB in 1991 as a Lieutenant Colonel to pursue politics. You could say he was later “head” of the FSB, the organization that the KGB morphed into under the Russian Federation, in the same sense that Trump heads the CIA and FBI, but that’s not how people normally use language. Putin worked mostly in CI within Russia, monitoring foreign intel officers, and in East Germany. His hints of a life of cloak and dagger derring-do are probably exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3850 "2018-02-13T15:32:32Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Putin was never “head of the KGB”. He retired from the KGB in 1991 as a Lieutenant Colonel to pursue politics. > > You could say he was later “head” of the FSB, the organization that the KGB morphed into under the Russian Federation, in the same sense that Trump heads the CIA and FBI, but that’s not how people normally use language. > > Putin worked mostly in CI within Russia, monitoring foreign intel officers, and in East Germany. His hints of a life of cloak and dagger derring-do are probably exaggerated. There’s no reason to worry overmuch about a world leader being tied to an intelligence agency - no one seems to think twice about Bush’s tenure as director of the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3851 "2018-02-13T16:26:43Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > There’s no reason to worry overmuch about a world leader being tied to an intelligence agency - no one seems to think twice about Bush’s tenure as director of the CIA. You’re joking, right? You’re seriously equating the CIA with the KGB and FSB? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3852 "2018-02-13T17:09:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Actually, Manafort is mentioned numerous times in the dossier…probably the only one who’s mentioned more is Bad Vlad himself. You’re right and I know this, having read the dossier through several times and quoted portions of it in this thread and others. My bad to have not added the words, “you think” in my queries to **F-P**. Posting While Tired. I will also apologize to **F-P** because I did misunderstand what he I thought he was saying in that instance. However, I think it is a mistake for **F-P** to draw a conclusion that the charges to date that have been leveled against Manafort and Gates are the only charges those two may face as Mueller’s investigation unfolds – and how much of Christopher Steele’s dossier ultimately proves to be true. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3853 "2018-02-13T17:40:42Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > You’re joking, right? You’re seriously equating the CIA with the KGB and FSB? No two things are identical, but both of these things fit the description of ‘intelligence agencies’. You can’t be seriously suggesting they don’t have things in common. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3854 "2018-02-13T17:58:03Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > No two things are identical, but both of these things fit the description of ‘intelligence agencies’. > > You can’t be seriously suggesting they don’t have things in common. They do of course have some features in common but the CIA does not murder political opponents of the president. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3855 "2018-02-13T18:09:51Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > There’s no reason to worry overmuch about a world leader being tied to an intelligence agency - no one seems to think twice about Bush’s tenure as director of the CIA. I agree when we’re talking about a world leader being tied to his own intelligence agancies. When he’s tied to foreign intelligence agencies, that’s a whole different issue. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3856 "2018-02-13T18:15:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They do of course have some features in common but the CIA does not murder political opponents of the president. Yet. It may be true that that goalpost hasn’t been achieved… yet. But the _original_ goalpost was simple murder, and the CIA has form for _that_. > **[US/Assassinations since 1945 - Wikispooks](https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US/Foreign_Assassinations_since_1945)** ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3857 "2018-02-13T18:18:13Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I agree when we’re talking about a world leader being tied to his own intelligence agancies. When he’s tied to foreign intelligence agencies, that’s a whole different issue. Exactly, no more reason to get all hot under the collar about Putin and the KGB than there is to worry about Bush and the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3858 "2018-02-13T18:20:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They do of course have some features in common but the CIA does not murder political opponents of the president. Yet. The Mossadegh family, among others,[would like a word with you.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA) Unless you left out the word “lately” or “domestically”, and even then we can’t be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3859 "2018-02-13T18:22:46Z")
Ok since you’re still not getting this… You see no difference between the CIA and the KGB? From a neutral party’s observation point, these two are morally equivalent? Russia, USA, no real difference right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3860 "2018-02-13T18:39:45Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > It may be true that that goalpost hasn’t been achieved… yet. > > But the _original_ goalpost was simple murder, and the CIA has form for _that_. > > [US/Assassinations since 1945 - Wikispooks](https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US/Foreign_Assassinations_since_1945) Awesome cite: “The CIA has been a preferred tool of the US deep state, which continues to carry out assassinating individuals for a range of reasons.” ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3861 "2018-02-13T18:41:58Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Ok since you’re still not getting this… > > You see no difference between the CIA and the KGB? From a neutral party’s observation point, these two are morally equivalent? Russia, USA, no real difference right? From a neutral party’s vantage point (for instance, the victims’), is disseminating disinformation, overthrowing governments, torture, blackmail, and political assassination, etc the sorts of things that it makes a great deal of difference whose oligarchs benefit? You seem to imagine someone who is murdered should be grateful if it’s CIA who’s administering the poison instead of the KGB. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3862 "2018-02-13T18:43:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Awesome cite: “The CIA has been a preferred tool of the US deep state, which continues to carry out assassinating individuals for a range of reasons.” Are you trying [awkwardly] to deny the CIA kills people? What do you think they are doing, selling cotton candy? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3863 "2018-02-13T21:48:53Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Are you trying [awkwardly] to deny the CIA kills people? > > What do you think they are doing, selling cotton candy? Marginalizes. Marginalizes. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=192) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=194)