# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 194
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3864 "2018-02-13T21:50:28Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Are you trying [awkwardly] to deny the CIA kills people? > > What do you think they are doing, selling cotton candy? Sure, they are selling candy. It’s how the deep state raises funds for ammunition and field trips. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3865 "2018-02-13T21:53:34Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Are you trying [awkwardly] to deny the CIA kills people? > > What do you think they are doing, selling cotton candy? The CIA doesn’t kill americans on american soil. If they do, they are murderers, and have no protections. I am sure it has happened, because people are who they are, but it is not sanctioned, and at the very least, the perception is that it is very rare. The KGB/FSI/EIEIO does kill russians on russian soil, and they are pretty open about it. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3866 "2018-02-13T22:18:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sure, they are selling candy. It’s how the deep state raises funds for ammunition and field trips. Let’s not slant things too far away from reality. You know they supplement their tax-payer funded budget by selling drugs. > **[History 101: The CIA & Drugs](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1998/06/history-101-cia-drugs/)** > > The CIA has a long and sordid history with drug traffickers. And it's all in the Congressional Record. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3867 "2018-02-13T22:30:21Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Let’s not slant things too far away from reality. I laughed really hard. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3868 "2018-02-13T22:41:43Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Let’s not slant things too far away from reality. > > You know they supplement their tax-payer funded budget by selling drugs. > > [History 101: The CIA & Drugs – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1998/06/history-101-cia-drugs/) Dues in the Trilateral Commission aren’t free, yah know? The Bilderburgs have really been tacking in the asssessments for capital improvements at the secretive Masons Headquarters in DC, where da Vinci and Ben Franklin store all the real secrets of the Deep State. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3869 "2018-02-13T23:12:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The CIA doesn’t kill americans on american soil. If they do, they are murderers, and have no protections. I am sure it has happened, because people are who they are, but it is not sanctioned, and at the very least, the perception is that it is very rare. > > The KGB/FSI/EIEIO does kill russians on russian soil, and they are pretty open about it. Good to know the unbridgeable chasm between the KGB and the CIA is that when the Americans murder a union organizer or liberal politician they make sure to do it on the right side of an imaginary line. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3870 "2018-02-14T00:31:40Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Good to know the unbridgeable chasm between the KGB and the CIA is that when the Americans murder a union organizer or liberal politician they make sure to do it on the right side of an imaginary line. Serious question: have you ever felt that there was a reasonable chance that Julian Assange would be killed in a Predator missile attack in London? ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3871 "2018-02-14T10:55:54Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Serious question: have you ever felt that there was a reasonable chance that Julian Assange would be killed in a Predator missile attack in London? No. Why do you think that is a likely scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3872 "2018-02-15T00:43:33Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > No. > > Why do you think that is a likely scenario? I never thought it was. But there were people losing their minds about “ASSANGE IS GOING TO BE DRONED BY HILARY CLINTON!1!” who I assume would tend to congregate around wikispooks. You said you are not among them, so my question is answered. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3873 "2018-02-16T01:08:52Z")
Gates has given Mueller everything he’s got to give in exchange for immunity. Now it’s up to Mueller to decide whether to bite: > **[Gates close to plea deal with Mueller in Russia probe: report](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/374146-gates-close-to-plea-deal-with-mueller-in-russia-probe-report/)** > > \ \\ \\ \\ \\ \ ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3874 "2018-02-16T18:47:17Z")
DOJ indicts 13 Russians for “conspiracy to defraud the United States”. No US person connection, but intersting [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380494-Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment.html#document/p4/a3](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380494-Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment.html#document/p4/a3) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3875 "2018-02-16T18:48:41Z")
Dangit, you beat me to it. I was commenting on other threads, didn’t get around to this yet. If nothing else, Mueller just made it even more impossible for the Orange Hairpiece to fire him. It also points up Thrump’s inaction on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3876 "2018-02-16T18:52:14Z")
So…if Mueller plans to indict Trump for obstruction of justice, is it necessary to first charge someone with the crime that he obstructed? Is this step 1 of a multi-step plan to indict Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3877 "2018-02-16T18:56:04Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So…if Mueller plans to indict Trump for obstruction of justice, is it necessary to first charge someone with the crime that he obstructed? Is this step 1 of a multi-step plan to indict Trump? Sounds like a logical conclusion. The investigation isn’t by any means done yet. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3878 "2018-02-16T19:17:28Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So…if Mueller plans to indict Trump for obstruction of justice, is it necessary to first charge someone with the crime that he obstructed? Is this step 1 of a multi-step plan to indict Trump? IANAL, but obstruction doesn’t require the successful completion of the underlying crime, or even the execution of the underlying crime. Planning the crime is all it takes. Of course, this requires proving that there was intent to commit a crime, which I understand is a pretty hard lift. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3879 "2018-02-16T19:20:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So…if Mueller plans to indict Trump for obstruction of justice, is it necessary to first charge someone with the crime that he obstructed? Is this step 1 of a multi-step plan to indict Trump? I think not. He tried to stop the investigation of Flynn, whether or not Flynn actually did anything is irrelevant as I see it. Likewise he tried to obstruct the investigation into himself by firing Comey is a crime regardless of whether or not the investigation would have borne fruit. He tried to prevent law enforcement officials from investigating a crime, whether or not such crime existed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3880 "2018-02-16T19:52:20Z")
Legally, sure, but there’s an inescapable political aspect to it. If there’s an actual, credible crime charged, that makes it much harder for the denialists to claim a related obstruction charge is all a political witch hunt etc. Not that it will stop them from trying, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3881 "2018-02-16T21:20:12Z")
I hate to say I told you so (well, _hate_ is a strong word), but earlier in this thread I suggested that perhaps the Russians worked to assist Bernie Sanders. And, hey! right there in Mueller’s indictments released today, we learn that the Russian defendant’s criminal organization worked to denigrate Clinton, Rubio, and Cruz, and to support the campaigns of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump… Also interesting to learn from the indictment that the Russians organized both pro- anti-Trump rallies - including the “ **Trump is NOT my president** ” rally held in New York last November 12. That does not fit the narrative that they were supporting Trump as a candidate or president. It does support the notion that they were acting as agents of chaos against the American political system, which is what I said earlier. They wanted to generate mistrust in the U.S, political system and damage whomever the winner turned out to be. Thanks to the Usual Gang of Useful Idiots on the left (no offense to anyone on this board), it worked. Congratulations to the U.S. left for unknowingly colluding with Mother Russia. Old habits die hard. The indictment also reflects that, as I also said earlier, the Russians’ primary goal was not to elect Trump (or Bernie, for that matter) but to harm Hillary, whom I suggested they saw as instrumental in interfering in their own elections (as a tit-for-tat action). There is no reference in the indictment to any actual penetration of the voter ballot system. All contacts between the Russian defendants and Americans (left and right) are described as unwitting. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3882 "2018-02-16T21:56:18Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Also interesting to learn from the indictment that the Russians organized both pro- anti-Trump rallies - including the “ **Trump is NOT my president** ” rally held in New York last November 12. That does not fit the narrative that they were supporting Trump as a candidate or president. It does support the notion that they were acting as agents of chaos against the American political system, which is what I said earlier. They wanted to generate mistrust in the U.S, political system and damage whomever the winner turned out to be. Thanks to the Usual Gang of Useful Idiots on the left (no offense to anyone on this board), it worked. Congratulations to the U.S. left for unknowingly colluding with Mother Russia. Old habits die hard. Which presidential candidate publicly encouraged Russia to hack and release emails from Hillary? On whose campaign was the person who bragged about having dirt on Hillary from Russian contacts and later lying to the FBI about it? Whose campaign had numerous meetings between high and mid-level representatives with Russian officials and Russians with key connections to Russian officials? Russia wanted to hurt Hillary. One of he ways they did that besides spear phishing her campaign manager’s email and releasing the data trove through third parties was to help Trump. Trump claims that this is a hoax. Trump is lying. What else is he lying about? And why are people like you so eager to condemn the left while giving a hard pass to the one campaign and administration that inculpates itself more and more each month? As the old conservative axiom goes - where there’s smoke, there’s fire. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3883 "2018-02-16T22:28:32Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > I hate to say I told you so (well, _hate_ is a strong word), but earlier in this thread I suggested that perhaps the Russians worked to assist Bernie Sanders. And, hey! right there in Mueller’s indictments released today, we learn that the Russian defendant’s criminal organization worked to denigrate Clinton, Rubio, and Cruz, and to support the campaigns of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump… Assisting Bernie against who? Oh, yeah, Hillary. Assisting the Pubbie candidates against who? Oh, yeah, Trump. > [@](#): > > Also interesting to learn from the indictment that the Russians organized both pro- anti-Trump rallies - including the “ **Trump is NOT my president** ” rally held in New York last November 12. That does not fit the narrative that they were supporting Trump as a candidate or president. It does support the notion that they were acting as agents of chaos against the American political system, which is what I said earlier. They wanted to generate mistrust in the U.S, political system and damage whomever the winner turned out to be. Thanks to the Usual Gang of Useful Idiots on the left (no offense to anyone on this board), it worked. Congratulations to the U.S. left for unknowingly colluding with Mother Russia. Old habits die hard. November 12. AFTER the election. Of course they tried to sow chaos after Trump was elected. But it has no bearing whatsoever on their meddling pre-election, which was all in one overall direction: help get Trump elected. Nice try at misdirection, though. As for the rest, you’ve got nothing but blatant partisanship. No evidence at all, just your hatred for the left. No need for it; we knew that already. > [@](#): > > The indictment also reflects that, as I also said earlier, the Russians’ primary goal was not to elect Trump (or Bernie, for that matter) but to harm Hillary, whom I suggested they saw as instrumental in interfering in their own elections (as a tit-for-tat action). Maybe if all they did was to hurt Hillary. Unfortunately, you can’t escape that they also specifically tried to help Trump, no matter how much you claim an apple is a banana. > [@](#): > > There is no reference in the indictment to any actual penetration of the voter ballot system. All contacts between the Russian defendants and Americans (left and right) are described as unwitting. In this particular indictment. It always amazes me how quick the right is to claim, at every point, that there is nothing. And yet Mueller’s investigation has shown no sign of ending. Manafort and Gates indicted? That proves no collusion. Flynn pleading guilty? No collusion. Papadopoulos pleading guilty? No collusion. Russians indicted for meddling? No collusion. Anybody else notice a regularity here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=193) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=195)