# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 196
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3904 "2018-02-17T22:33:53Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Well, he was a businessman but he was an East Coast metropolitan real estate businessman/developer. His product mostly sold itself as real estate values increased and increased as the population did. His cheap-skating or outright cheating his contractors seems to be the mechanism for ensuring profits. He seems to think his paltry, nouveau riche salesmanship was the secret to his success instead of the rising market and has spun that myth into his entire life. He seems to have forgotten that it was a myth and therefore vastly overrates his competence and knowledge in all areas. No, he failed in business. He survives the same way that other celebrities do, by selling his image to people who can do business. And, like him, most celebrities are living beyond their means just no one cares because their celebrity means that they can always just generate more money. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3905 "2018-02-17T23:14:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > He’s not particularly different in depositions. He comes across as blissfully unaware and mostly destructive to his own businesses by denying and allowing projects to progress based on the internal politics of himself and his entourage. > > To the extent that he has won most of his court cases, I suspect that it’s a matter that: > > 1. He doesn’t get deposed in most of them. > 2. He has more money to dump into his lawyers than most of his opponents do. > 3. His businesses are so poorly documented that you simply can’t prove anything against him. I don’t think so. Poorly documented businesses aren’t safe from prosecution because it’s too complicated to go there. I’ve seen some deposition footage and he seems much more self aware, in fact it was the point of showing the footage. If he had behaved in those occasions like he does now he wouldn’t have made it without bad outcomes. It’s impossible to go through a deposition by giving out stream of consciousness answers without trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3906 "2018-02-18T02:54:45Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > There is exactly zero chance that Trump is ever going to be in prison, no matter what is eventually revealed to be the state of his involvement. We simply don’t do that to elected Presidents, and it’s not a precedent anybody’s going to want to set now. I was born post-Nixon, but I still get angry at Ford for pardoning him (while at the same time I can see he had to do it). I don’t believe for a second our congress in 2018 would even send a formal rebuke much less formal charges and conviction, so my doubts about FEDERAL prison are great. You know because when you’re a star, they let you do it. But as to the core “we would never ever do that”? I think if there is a big enough blue wave to flip congress (maybe not the senate or maybe just to a one or two vote margin), not sending him to jail _if_ serious criminal activity is absolutely crystal clear, knowing, active participation, pre- and post-election… the backlash would be bad for the Democrats. It does look terrible for us to throw a president in jail, but I think it looks worse to let someone get away with it. Politically, the best solution (assuming he wasn’t president anymore) would be to drag out hearings and hope the Big Macs get him first. Then no one over reacted, under reacted, etc. So maybe no elected official wants to set that precedent, but if not for Trump (again, assuming our worst theories are true), then for whom? And if congress wusses out, the states aren’t going to let it go. I give prison about 20% chance. Big Macs 70%. Wildcard 10%. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3907 "2018-02-18T03:30:23Z")
If he’s a criminal, he should be imprisoned for his crime. The fact a small portion of your population bought red hats and clapped their hands for him doesn’t matter. To whom would it look terrible? His fans? There’s no need to placate them any more than there was a need to placate O.J. Simpson fans. The rest of the world? We’d be grateful. And impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3908 "2018-02-18T03:43:16Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > There is exactly zero chance that Trump is ever going to be in prison, no matter what is eventually revealed to be the state of his involvement. We simply don’t do that to elected Presidents, and it’s not a precedent anybody’s going to want to set now. A lot of new precedents have been set with this “president.” This is a bad situation such as we’ve never faced before. Like **Fair Rarity** , I remember Nixon and Watergate. I was young, but I lived through it. And same as **Fair Rarity** , even though I understand Ford’s reasoning in issuing the pardon, it never sat well with me. If no citizen is above the law, then no citizen should be above a just punishment for what they are proved to have done. Compared to Nixon, I consider what Trump has likely done to be far, far worse. If true, he has not only betrayed our country for his own selfish gain. He has betrayed it to a foreign country with hostile intentions toward the US and the whole of Western democracy for his own selfish gain. He may never see an orange jump suit while he remains in the White House. After he is no longer “president”? All bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3909 "2018-02-18T04:24:53Z")
> [@kolak of twilo](#): > > Какая погода в Санкт-Петербурге? Твоя мать знает. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3910 "2018-02-18T06:01:43Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’ve seen some deposition footage and he seems much more self aware, in fact it was the point of showing the footage. If he had behaved in those occasions like he does now he wouldn’t have made it without bad outcomes. It’s impossible to go through a deposition by giving out stream of consciousness answers without trouble. I wasn’t meaning to imply that he was completely unchanged during depositions, just in the ways that I specified. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3911 "2018-02-18T07:56:20Z")
I see somebody found their Cyrillic font. I always thought Mike’s accent was a little funny. I just caught Real Time, and I’ve come to a conclusion: Vicente Fox is one funny dude. And big. He dwarfs Bill Maher. Maybe we could get him to wrestle Trump. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3912 "2018-02-18T12:04:28Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Какая погода в Санкт-Петербурге? > [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Твоя мать знает. Stick to English, please. From the FAQ on Rules: [Must I post in English? The Straight Dope Message Board is owned by a publication based in the USA. The common language of all the moderators of this message board is English. For that reason we ask that all posts on this message board be made in English. The staff members need to be able to read and understand posts made at the message board. Exceptions include requests for help with translation, explanation of foreign language words or expressions, foreign words or phrases that have come into English, etc.]([https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697021#post7697021](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697021#post7697021)) This includes weather reports and attempts to lodge insults. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3913 "2018-02-18T12:10:34Z")
Unless Pence gets brought down in the same series of actions, he would surely pardon Trump. There is a difference with the Nixon/Ford situation. Nixon did not conspire with a foreign power and, at the time Nixon resigned, he still had a substantial base. Trump squeaked in with an anti-Hilary base and has been losing support (outside of Alabama) for the entire duration of his term. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3914 "2018-02-18T21:46:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Unless Pence gets brought down in the same series of actions, he would surely pardon Trump. > > There is a difference with the Nixon/Ford situation. Nixon did not conspire with a foreign power and, at the time Nixon resigned, he still had a substantial base. Trump squeaked in with an anti-Hilary base and has been losing support (outside of Alabama) for the entire duration of his term. I keep a loose grip on the polling, current T approval #s are about 8-10 over the last Nixon polls before his resignation. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3915 "2018-02-18T23:35:49Z")
Let us not forget that trump is the one who popularized the notion of “locking up” one’s opponents. Seeing _him_ go to jail would be justice in both absolute _and_ poetic terms. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3916 "2018-02-19T02:35:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Unless Pence gets brought down in the same series of actions, he would surely pardon Trump. And we can hope Pence gets ousted first. I mean, this is The Stupidest Timeline, but it doesn’t mean we can’t mirror what happened before. Literally one of the first WH guests after the inauguration was Kissinger. I mean, there is a reasonable chance Pence could be out first, and not just political machinations. His ties with Manafort are stronger. Plus despite his general awfulness, there seems to\*\* maybe\*\* be a semblance of a person behind those beady little eyes, whereas Trump is just empty or filled with empty styrofoam 80s Filet O Fish boxes. So if no VP (especially no VP Pence), there isn’t a payback motive to pardon. Plus the brilliance of Mueller involving state AGs is that he can be federally pardoned, tarnishing the legacy of the pardoner forever, but he can still wear an orange jumpsuit in upstate New York. Or Florida. Or Maryland. Or Delaware. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3917 "2018-02-19T02:52:37Z")
I think it’s very telling that Mueller has not sought an interview with Pence, who lied repeatedly on camera, knowingly obstructing justice. As I’ve said before, if you look around the poker table and you can’t tell who’s the sucker… Pence is one of the “big fish.” I just don’t believe Mueller is going to give him a pass. I may be wrong, of course, but I just don’t. I don’t see a semblance of a person. I see a zealot. He’s dangerous – but he’s not charismatic. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3918 "2018-02-19T03:16:36Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think it’s very telling that Mueller has not sought an interview with Pence, who lied repeatedly on camera, knowingly obstructing justice. As I’ve said before, if you look around the poker table and you can’t tell who’s the sucker… > > Pence is one of the “big fish.” I just don’t believe Mueller is going to give him a pass. I may be wrong, of course, but I just don’t. > > I don’t see a semblance of a person. I see a zealot. He’s dangerous – but he’s not charismatic. I suspect that it just means that Pence was smart enough to stay 20 miles away from everything Trump and his campaign and his presidency are up to. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3919 "2018-02-19T03:41:44Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I suspect that it just means that Pence was smart enough to stay 20 miles away from everything Trump and his campaign and his presidency are up to. He hasn’t, though. Elijah Cummings warned Pence directly about Flynn’s conflicts of interest in a letter dated November 18, 2016. Pence acknowledged receipt of the letter. Pence knowingly lied about Trump’s reasons for firing Comey. He was in the meetings where the pretense was discussed and agreed upon, then went out and lied about it to the press. He knowingly lied about Mike Flynn’s phone calls with Kislyak. He was in the meetings where Flynn’s phone calls to Kislyak were discussed about the true purpose of the calls (to discuss sanctions). He knowingly lied about his awareness of Flynn’s being investigated by the FBI. He was the head of the transition team, for goodness’ sake. Do you honestly think he didn’t know and wasn’t told by McGahn after Sally Yates warned of Flynn’s situation? He’s up to his neck in it. He sure didn’t stay “20 miles away” from it all. [Timeline with links](http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3920 "2018-02-21T03:17:28Z")
Well, based on the Van der Zwaan indictment, I’ve got to assume that Person A is crapping their pants. I’m going to guess Kushner. VDZ was deposed in November 2017, it seems. Isn’t that about the time that Kushner started shopping around for a crisis management company? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3921 "2018-02-21T03:22:58Z")
I’ll also note that Person A and VDZ were communicating in September of 2016, well past the time when Manafort had been ejected from the campaign. This would pretty clearly have nothing to do with Manafort, whatever it is. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3922 "2018-02-21T03:30:51Z")
This NBC [report](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/mueller-files-new-charge-russia-probe-against-lawyer-accused-lying-n849566) says “Person A” is a Ukrainian based associate of Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3923 "2018-02-21T14:50:37Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > He has been in depositions many, many times. I’m not sure why he seems so lost now. But he is. From what I’ve read, Trump’s performance in depositions has not been much different from what you’d expect from what you see of him now. The big difference is that those were all civil cases, where if he just casually ran his mouth as is his wont he might harm his case a bit. Now he has hard-edged prosecutors on the other side of the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=195) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=197)