# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3924 "2018-02-21T16:59:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > From what I’ve read, Trump’s performance in depositions has not been much different from what you’d expect from what you see of him now. The big difference is that those were all civil cases, where if he just casually ran his mouth as is his wont he might harm his case a bit. Now he has hard-edged prosecutors on the other side of the table. What do you expect to see now in this situation? > **[FACT CHECK: Donald Trump's 'Nuclear' Speech](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-sentence/)** > > A rambling, jumbled portion of a July 2016 Donald Trump speech has amused and stunned social media users. I think you’re being very kind to donald. He cannot have acted in the deps like he has spoken in public over the last year, because he has been incoherent, and he has not been made to _ **settle on any answer to any question as president** _. It’s different now. Do you know why they aren’t going to let him appear in front of Florida schoolkids? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3925 "2018-02-21T17:27:42Z")
He can ramble in depositions but the lawyer will bring him back to the point. If you read reviews of his prior depositions, they don’t sound much different than he is now. I read one article by a guy he was suing for libel. The point the guy made is that it wasn’t just about Trump lying but that he himself didn’t appreciate which lies would help him and which would hurt him. (One example I recall - he insisted on taking “credit” for things that he would have been far better off passing off as the work of underlings - especially since the latter was probably closer to the truth - but his ego wouldn’t let him.) As VT recently put it “he’s a liar who doesn’t realize that he’s also an idiot”. Same old Trump … ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3926 "2018-02-21T17:59:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > He can ramble in depositions but the lawyer will bring him back to the point. > > If you read reviews of his prior depositions, they don’t sound much different than he is now. > > I read one article by a guy he was suing for libel. The point the guy made is that it wasn’t just about Trump lying but that he himself didn’t appreciate which lies would help him and which would hurt him. (One example I recall - he insisted on taking “credit” for things that he would have been far better off passing off as the work of underlings - especially since the latter was probably closer to the truth - but his ego wouldn’t let him.) > > As VT recently put it “he’s a liar who doesn’t realize that he’s also an idiot”. > > Same old Trump … The cite I gave would be unacceptable in a deposition, so that’s one data point. I’m not a lawyer but it sounds risky to me. So maybe he’s too stupid to stay out of jail in criminal proceedings, but he was fine in civil court? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3927 "2018-02-21T18:28:40Z")
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. What does “unacceptable in a deposition” mean in this context, and what would be “risky” about talking like that in a deposition? IANAL, but I’m unaware of any laws against rambling semi-coherently in a deposition. If that happens I assume the lawyer interviewing him will drag him back on track, but if he doesn’t then I don’t know what the risk is. The real risk is that he’ll lie in the deposition or otherwise incriminate himself by saying things with legal implications that he doesn’t appreciate (e.g. “I was just fighting back”). ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3928 "2018-02-21T20:34:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. > > What does “unacceptable in a deposition” mean in this context, and what would be “risky” about talking like that in a deposition? IANAL, but I’m unaware of any laws against rambling semi-coherently in a deposition. If that happens I assume the lawyer interviewing him will drag him back on track, but if he doesn’t then I don’t know what the risk is. > > The real risk is that he’ll lie in the deposition or otherwise incriminate himself by saying things with legal implications that he doesn’t appreciate (e.g. “I was just fighting back”). Read it and see if it could stand. At the least he would be asked to speak english, and known as an obfuscator, at worst he could open up lines that are unforeseen by the lawyers. Testifying by improv? Did you ever try it? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3929 "2018-02-21T22:53:20Z")
You’ve made me wonder how something like that would go, actually… Trump: _word salad_ Mueller: I’m sorry, sir, but I couldn’t understand a single word you said. Trump: I understood my response perfectly fine. I don’t know how to explain any more clearly. If you don’t get my perfectly simple statement, that’s not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3930 "2018-02-22T00:45:51Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > You’ve made me wonder how something like that would go, actually… > > Trump: _word salad_ > > Mueller: I’m sorry, sir, but I couldn’t understand a single word you said. > > Trump: I understood my response perfectly fine. I don’t know how to explain any more clearly. If you don’t get my perfectly simple statement, that’s not my problem. Trump: I understood my Chicago unusually obtuse. He isn’t why to proactive any more railing. I that isn’t my question, and it’s Hillary’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3931 "2018-02-22T01:21:39Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Trump: I understood my Chicago unusually obtuse. He isn’t why to proactive any more railing. I that isn’t my question, and it’s Hillary’s fault. Believe me, it needs more “NO COLLUSION!,” “fake,” “all-time greatest memories,” and “I don’t remember.” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3932 "2018-02-22T01:39:40Z")
What about your brain cells donald? "There was never any collusion. No Collusion, no collusion at all. The best people are saying it and you know that and I know that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3933 "2018-02-22T01:43:29Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Believe me, it needs more “NO COLLUSION!,” “fake,” “all-time greatest memories,” and “I don’t remember.” [nitpick] It’s (“one of the”) [“greatest memories of all time”](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gold-star-great-memory-2017-10) or GMOAT for short, as Cody Johnston of [Cracked.com](http://Cracked.com) noted last November in his fantastic video _[Weird How Everyone President Donald Trump Knows Does Crimes](https://youtu.be/CFMRJSPDr2k?t=5m39s)_ (jumps to relevant GMOAT part). [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3934 "2018-02-22T01:50:59Z")
… and I fukt the quote up, as the BI link shows: “one of the great memories of all time” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3935 "2018-02-23T00:48:49Z")
I guess Gates has lost his lawyers yet-yet-yet-yet-yet again. Also, apparently, no plea deal. Supposedly he did have his plea interview (assuming the media wasn’t lied to), and that would mean that Team Mueller knows everything there is to know in Gates’ world, and presumably can continue to investigate in that direction based on any revelations he may have granted them? That said, I suspect that the reason that Gates has lost all of his lawyers is from consistently lying to them about his finances and what all he has done, in obvious ways. So, it’s just as likely that his plea got turned down because he just sat there and told Mueller a bunch of crap that wasn’t true and which they knew to not be true. And that would also mean that he wouldn’t have given them anything to investigate. I wonder if he needs to go into witness protection or something. Maybe he’s in an impossible situation where can’t reveal anything, for fear of assassination, but also can’t risk going to jail because he’s got a family. It’ll be interesting to see if Gates suddenly disappears from the face of Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3936 "2018-02-23T05:45:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m feeling like the next time Mueller pops up, we’re going to encounter a few names from this article: > > [Behind Manafort’s Loans, a Chopper Pilot Who Flew Into Trump’s Orbit - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/behind-manafort-s-loans-chopper-pilot-who-flew-into-trump-orbit) > > Several of Manafort’s money laundering loans, quelle surprise, come from some long time friends of Trump. Muahahaha! I nailed it. Stephen Calk: > **[Did Manafort promise banker White House job in return for home loans?](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mueller-asking-if-manafort-promised-banker-white-house-job-return-n849916)** > > Mueller's investigators are asking whether ex-Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort promised Steve Calk a White House job in return for $16 million in home loans. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3937 "2018-02-23T06:45:33Z")
Am I _really_ the only one to have seen this yet? [Manafort and Gates hit with new 32 count indictment for tax and bank fraud.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/new-indictment-hits-manafort-gates-tax-bank-fraud-charges-n850411) These alleged crimes would have occurred in January 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3938 "2018-02-23T07:38:20Z")
It’s been about for most of the day; I never got around to posting it. I keep expecting Gates to pull a My Cousin Vinny…“You were _serious_ about that?” No worries, Manafort will get an hour to walk around the yard every day. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3939 "2018-02-23T14:09:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > No worries, Manafort will get an hour to walk around the yard every day. With all that polonium coursing through his veins that seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3940 "2018-02-23T15:07:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Supposedly he did have his plea interview (assuming the media wasn’t lied to), and that would mean that Team Mueller knows everything there is to know in Gates’ world, and presumably can continue to investigate in that direction based on any revelations he may have granted them? > > That said, I suspect that the reason that Gates has lost all of his lawyers is from consistently lying to them about his finances and what all he has done, in obvious ways. So, it’s just as likely that his plea got turned down because he just sat there and told Mueller a bunch of crap that wasn’t true and which they knew to not be true. And that would also mean that he wouldn’t have given them anything to investigate. An alternative explanation is that he simply didn’t/couldn’t tell them anything that they didn’t already have solid evidence for. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3941 "2018-02-23T15:08:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > It’s been about for most of the day; I never got around to posting it. > > I keep expecting Gates to pull a My Cousin Vinny…“You were _serious_ about that?” > > No worries, Manafort will get an hour to walk around the yard every day. Maybe soon. Because if the new allegations are true, Manafort used fraud to acquire the properties that he pledged as collateral for his physical freedom. So they may revoke his bail. I read most of the actual indictment and there’s some serious crimes being accused. Recent ones, too. Now I understand why they pulled the guns drawn SWAT team style raid on Manafort back in the summer. And why they laughed in Manafort’s face whenever he requested exceptions to his house arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3942 "2018-02-23T16:12:26Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I guess Gates has lost his lawyers yet-yet-yet-yet-yet again. Also, apparently, no plea deal. Appears that Gates has had “a change of heart” (per a letter sent to his friends and family) and he’s going to deal. Possibly today. > **[Former Trump campaign official Rick Gates pleads guilty to 2 charges](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-official-rick-gates-expected-to-plead-guilty-and-cooperate-with-special-counsel-in-probe-of-russian-election-interference/2018/02/23/ceaaeac8-16b4-11e8-b681-2d4d462a1921_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_gates-11a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.988d59db7b3a)** > > Gates, who also served on Trump’s inaugural committee, admits to conspiracy and lying to the FBI and will cooperate with special counsel. > [@Washington Post](#): > > Rick Gates, a former top official in President Trump’s campaign, is expected to plead guilty Friday to charges brought by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III in his investigation of Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and cooperate with prosecutors, according to a person familiar with the situation. > > It is not clear to what charges Gates intends to plead guilty. > > Gates could provide the special counsel with valuable information about the inner workings of Trump’s operation: He served as a senior figure in the campaign and had access to the White House as an outside adviser in the early months of the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/3943 "2018-02-23T19:52:46Z")
Here’s the [plea document](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/rick-gates-plea-document/index.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=198)