# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 201
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4004 "2018-03-07T16:24:07Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’d also guess that Mueller’s greatest challenge is not finding wrongdoing, but the sheer breadth, depth, and scale of it. Someone was saying that this is how business is often done at that level. Lots of dirty money sloshing around and obeying the laws only if there is going to be scrutiny. This investigation is going to make it harder for the Trumps and their associates to continue doing business, because shady is the only way their business is done. No legitimate investor wants to work with them because of the risk, and no shady investor wants to because they don’t want anyone to look into their finances. It’s looking like much of the investments Kushner had gotten recently were pay-for-influence. People were willing to do that when they thought they could get away with it, but that’s not going to continue anymore (or it’ll have to go more underground). ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4005 "2018-03-07T16:48:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Are you sure that another savvy tech guy couldn’t just come along and electronically remove the redacting? If you’re redacting a pdf properly, no, because the redaction doesn’t simply cover the text. It replaces it completely. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4006 "2018-03-07T16:52:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Are you sure that another savvy tech guy couldn’t just come along and electronically remove the redacting? Sure, but that would just leave a blank space. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4007 "2018-03-07T17:11:59Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > If you’re redacting a pdf properly, no, because the redaction doesn’t simply cover the text. It replaces it completely. OK. But that’s what’s visible to the casual reader. What I’m wondering is if there’s something in the background code for this file which says “replace [text] …”? Because if there is, then someone who knows how to access that code could still undo it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4008 "2018-03-07T17:20:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OK. But that’s what’s visible to the casual reader. What I’m wondering is if there’s something in the background code for this file which says “replace [text] …”? Because if there is, then someone who knows how to access that code could still undo it. Only if the redacter is a complete moron or has the intent of divulging secrets. When you are writing a post, and you realize that you didn’t want that particular sentence, and you delete it, is there any way for me to read the deleted text? It is the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4009 "2018-03-07T18:12:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OK. But that’s what’s visible to the casual reader. What I’m wondering is if there’s something in the background code for this file which says “replace [text] …”? Because if there is, then someone who knows how to access that code could still undo it. Not if done correctly. I redact documents for work, and when we redact we also strip the metadata. We only work with Adobe, so I don’t know if the same is true for Word documents. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4010 "2018-03-07T21:47:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OK. But that’s what’s visible to the casual reader. What I’m wondering is if there’s something in the background code for this file which says “replace [text] …”? Because if there is, then someone who knows how to access that code could still undo it. For certain settings, yes… Word with “track changes” is one way\*, using a Word/Excel/etc document via a sharing service like Sharepoint is another, I’m sure the same is true for Apple products, but no experience, sorry. Another way it could happen for the casual user is to accidentally add a layer with one of the “paint” tools (or equivalent) while thinking they are deleting/covering data, but I’m sure this office wouldn’t make this mistake. I also think that printing the modified file itself to PDF would solve a lot of this, especially if you select… IIRC… “flat” PDF option. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4011 "2018-03-07T22:27:07Z")
Sorry, forgot: - [Track Changes is what helped Mueller catch Manafort violating house arrest all the way back to the year of January.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-08/manafort-heavily-edited-op-ed-documents-filed-by-mueller-show) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4012 "2018-03-08T01:07:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I also think that printing the modified file itself to PDF would solve a lot of this, especially if you select… IIRC… “flat” PDF option. This. The way it works is: 1. I need to redact text in a PDF. 2. I draw a black box over the text in question. a. At this point, FP’s conjecture is true. Hide the layer and you can see the text under it. Much like using a sheet of clear plastic with a sharpie rectangle to cover text on a piece of paper. 3. (And this is the key piece). I “flatten” the layers in the PDF. That means that the black box is now literally all that exists in that part of the PDF. The text isn’t “covered up”, it has ceased to be. Gone to meet its Maker. Run up the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibule. It is EX text. 4. I then print this document BACK to PDF and ensure that the metadata (author, original creation date, etc) is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4013 "2018-03-08T01:13:21Z")
[Mueller gathers evidence that 2017 Seychelles meeting was effort to establish back channel to Kremlin](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mueller-gathers-evidence-that-2016-seychelles-meeting-was-effort-to-establish-back-channel-to-kremlin/2018/03/07/b6a5fb8c-224b-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.72e791db1e32) > [@](#): > > In January 2017, Erik Prince, the founder of the private security company Blackwater, met with a Russian official close to Russian President Vladimir Putin and later described the meeting to congressional investigators as a chance encounter that was not a planned discussion of U.S.-Russia relations. > > A witness cooperating with Mueller has told investigators the meeting was set up in advance so that a representative of the Trump transition could meet with an emissary from Moscow to discuss future relations between the countries, according to the people familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters. Seriously? Russia helps a jackass get elected US president, and a leader of a shadowy mercenary corporation sets up a secret meeting to establish an extragovernmental channel of communication between Russia and the new president? Robert Ludlum, you’re a shitty author, stop writing our timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4014 "2018-03-08T01:24:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [ > Robert Ludlum, you’re a shitty author, stop writing our timeline. I mean, he’s long dead, so you’re likely right about the quality of his prose. Is there any legitimate reason such a back channel would be used? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4015 "2018-03-08T02:21:55Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is there any legitimate reason such a back channel would be used? Legitimate? Not likely. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4016 "2018-03-08T03:13:55Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I mean, he’s long dead, so you’re likely right about the quality of his prose. > > Is there any legitimate reason such a back channel would be used? Of course. For example, they might want to monitor the price for pissing whores, without setting off speculation that causes the markets to fluctuate. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4017 "2018-03-08T17:41:33Z")
The talking poiint on this has already been used: Kennedy set up something “back channel” too. Tu Quoqe 24-7 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4018 "2018-03-08T18:29:09Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The talking poiint on this has already been used: Kennedy set up something “back channel” too. Tu Quoqe 24-7 Right, because what a Democrat did over half a century ago has anything to do with what a Republican does now. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4019 "2018-03-08T18:29:39Z")
Are they even trying to _not_ look shady? [Amid renewed scrutiny, Erik Prince to host fundraiser for Russia-friendly congressman](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/erik-prince-fundraiser/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4020 "2018-03-08T19:49:54Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Of course. For example, they might want to monitor the price for pissing whores, without setting off speculation that causes the markets to fluctuate. and the last thing you want is fluctuations in your pissing whores. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4021 "2018-03-08T20:53:05Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The talking poiint on this has already been used: Kennedy set up something “back channel” too. Tu Quoqe 24-7 The back channel part isn’t what’s interesting about it. It’s that someone was arrested in relation to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4022 "2018-03-08T21:04:16Z")
Not just arrested. Arrested while traveling to Mar-a-lago to celebrate Trump’s inauguration anniversary. Not that that’s meaningful. I just find it amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4023 "2018-03-08T21:17:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The back channel part isn’t what’s interesting about it. It’s that someone was arrested in relation to it. I don’t know how significant that is. When you have a special counsel looking at everything with a fine tooth comb, there’s going to be people arrested for doing things that other people have done without consequence. Sort of like the premise of this story: [Dozens race to register as foreign lobbyists since start of Mueller inquiry, fearful of Manafort’s fate](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-foreign-lobbying-mueller-20180301-story.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=200) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=202)