# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 213
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4244 "2018-05-02T20:16:33Z")
But he lied to the American people! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4245 "2018-05-02T20:17:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hard to imagine that this would be obstruction in any event, but IIRC Comey was no longer FBI head and thus no longer investigating anything at the time this threat was made. Obstruction of Justice largely comes down on the question of **intent**. None of the 6 things are a crime, they’re simply demonstrative of an intent to shut down the investigation and/or suppress information from getting out. > [@](#): > > Mueller seems to be looking into this, but it seems extremely dubious to me. Hard to imagine that political pronouncements aimed at the public at large can be construed as obstruction of justice. That would be like considering Clinton’s statement that “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky” as obstruction. Very bad PR, but not legally actionable. Again, the proof of obstruction is by displaying a general intent / frame of mind of the President was to prevent the investigation from being able to proceed, not to show that there were specific acts that were obstructive. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4246 "2018-05-02T20:35:47Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > What act of obstruction of justice did Trump specifically do? > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 1. Fired the person investigating him > … And admitted to Lester Holt on national television what motivated him to do so. But then, this only answers a very limited question: What act of obstruction of justice did Trump specifically do that he admitted to on national television? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4247 "2018-05-02T20:36:26Z")
Ty Cobb is out as Trump’s lead lawyer for dealing with the Mueller investigation. He’s being replaced by Emmet Flood, who was a special counsel during Bush 43’s administration, and worked on Bill Clinton’s defense team during his impeachment. > **[‘The gloves may be coming off’: Shake-up of Trump legal team signals...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-lawyer-ty-cobb-is-exiting-and-will-be-replaced-by-clinton-impeachment-attorney-emmet-flood/2018/05/02/96da63b8-4e26-11e8-84a0-458a1aa9ac0a_story.html?utm_term=.4f00e3f3b91e)** > > Trump’s legal team seeks a “more aggressive” approach as it contends with the possibility of a presidential subpoena. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4248 "2018-05-02T20:53:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hard to imagine that this would be obstruction in any event, but IIRC Comey was no longer FBI head and thus no longer investigating anything at the time this threat was made. > Mueller seems to be looking into this, but it seems extremely dubious to me. Hard to imagine that political pronouncements aimed at the public at large can be construed as obstruction of justice. That would be like considering Clinton’s statement that “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky” as obstruction. Very bad PR, but not legally actionable. See my previous post as well, but I feel that I should make a second point. I was once in a discussion of Jewish archeology, and pointed out 9 separate items of evidence, from different regions and times, that the Ancient Jews were polytheistic. A person argued against one of them, and then in a later post said something to the effect that, “There’s still no evidence that the Ancient Jews weren’t monotheistic.” His argument against 1 of the 9 items had magically dispelled the other 8 in his mind. But that’s not how evidence works. If there’s a 10% chance that each of item does not mean what it seems to mean, but there are 9 different items of evidence, then the odds that none of them mean what they seem to mean is vanishingly small (0.0000001%). Feel free to assign probabilities on each of the 6. We can check how likely, in your estimation, it is that Trump is not guilty even with 6 different items of evidence that his intent was to prevent the investigation from finding the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4249 "2018-05-02T20:56:23Z")
Intent only counts if it’s attached to a specific act of obstruction. The fact that there’s overwhelming evidence that the guy wanted the investigation to end is meaningless in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4250 "2018-05-02T21:04:36Z")
Cambridge Analytica is shutting down , cannot get any more work. [https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/politics/cambridge-analytica-closure/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/politics/cambridge-analytica-closure/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4251 "2018-05-02T21:42:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 1. Fired the person investigating him > 2. Fired the person who replaced the person who was investigating him. His underlings refused and so this didn’t actually come to fruition, but the order does seem to have been given. Twice, if I recall correctly. > 3. Threatened to reveal “tapes” of his conversations with the first investigator. > 4. Crafted an untruthful statement about a meeting with Russian persons that his team took part in. > 5. Multiple threatening statements against the DoJ. > 6. Statements to the effect that he expected the Attorney General to act to shut down the investigation when, instead, he recused himself. That’s it!? I thought you guys had something like destroying 30,000 emails like Hillary did. Now that’s obstruction of justice. There are several legitimate reasons to fire Comey including leaking classified information and the fact he admits to making decisions based on Hillary’s anticipated win. The other issues involve Trump executing his duties as POTUS. In his mind and the minds of many reasonable people, this Russian probe is nothing more than government financed harassment. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4252 "2018-05-02T21:49:12Z")
Comey leaked classified information? Please, do tell. On a side note, none of your “several” reasons to fire Comey are Trump’s stated reason. But I digress, more about this classified information leak, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4253 "2018-05-02T21:52:44Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > There are several legitimate reasons to fire Comey including leaking classified information and the fact he admits to making decisions based on Hillary’s anticipated win. And yet Trump tells Lester Holt he fired Comey because of “this Russia thing”. When somebody confesses to a crime, prosecutors tend to believe them. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4254 "2018-05-02T21:55:00Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > There are several legitimate reasons to fire Comey including leaking classified information and the fact he admits to making decisions based on Hillary’s anticipated win. If Comey has leaked classified information, why hasn’t he been charged? It can’t be partisan politics: currently the heads of Justice are all Republicans, and both House and Senate are majority-Republican. The Supreme Court is majority-conservative. And of course the President is Republican. So what could possibly be holding up charges against Comey? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4255 "2018-05-02T22:06:21Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > That’s it!? I thought you guys had something like destroying 30,000 emails like Hillary did. Now that’s obstruction of justice. > > There are several legitimate reasons to fire Comey including leaking classified information and the fact he admits to making decisions based on Hillary’s anticipated win. The other issues involve Trump executing his duties as POTUS. In his mind and the minds of many reasonable people, this Russian probe is nothing more than government financed harassment. You think that it’s fine that Russia interfered in our Presidential election? Hillary’s supposed email loss was investigated by Comey. The investigation was re-opened right before the election. Hardly a partisan Democratic move. And oh a Republican leaning DOJ and Congress did not find anything worth pursuing. Again. On the other hand Trump admitted to firing Comey (on national TV no less) because of his investigation in the ‘Russian Thing’. Or Trump and his ties to the Russian interference in the election. You’re going to need a signed confession from Trump aren’t you. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4256 "2018-05-02T22:11:56Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > You’re going to need a signed confession from Trump aren’t you. I can’t see a guarantee that even that would convince his basest base. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4257 "2018-05-02T22:22:53Z")
There’s also this little conspiracy problem, which doesn’t require a crime to have been committed. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4258 "2018-05-02T22:29:54Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I can’t see a guarantee that even that would convince his basest base. The only thing that would convince Trump’s basest base that he’s guilty and should be removed from the Presidency, is if Trump booked primetime to sit at his desk in front of the camera and say something like: > [@](#): > > \*I have to tell you that I said all those things about Obama being born in Kenya, and building a wall, and Mexicans and Muslims being bad people that have to be kept out of the USA, and NFL players being wrong to protest police violence, and neo-Nazis and white supremacists being ‘fine people,’ and women being pigs, and disabled people being hard to watch, and majority-black nations being shit-holes, and all the rest of it--------I said it all just to win attention and votes. > > I didn’t mean any of it…not one word. I just needed to hear cheers at rallies. I’m a very insecure and lonely person and I really love those cheers! But it was wrong. I made it all up and now I will be working to promote peace and harmony between people of all colors, religions, genders, orientations, and other demographic differences. Let’s try to get along, shall we? God bless the United States of America.\* …our own Trump-defenders and all the other Trump-defenders would lose no time in calling for his immediate impeachment and trial. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4259 "2018-05-02T22:38:04Z")
“It’s a trick! Hillary and the Deep State Dummocrats are forcing him to say all of that. We’re still with you, Donald! MAGA! MAGA! MAGA!” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4260 "2018-05-02T22:43:22Z")
You’re right—they’d cling to their Beautiful Dream (of an overt racist in the White House, FINALLY!!!1!!) until dragged kicking and screaming to the nut bin closest to their physical location. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4261 "2018-05-02T22:44:05Z")
The comments below the YouTube video of him saying that would be “Fake news! He never said that, and you can’t find video of him saying it!”. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4262 "2018-05-02T22:48:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The comments below the YouTube video of him saying that would be “Fake news! He never said that, and you can’t find video of him saying it!”. Google would make a mint selling their account info to marketers. Those selling Brooklyn Bridges and the like do tend to target their ads to people of that general IQ level, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4263 "2018-05-02T22:52:12Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > …our own Trump-defenders and all the other Trump-defenders would lose no time in calling for his immediate impeachment and trial. If Trump said that, I’d be looking for cocoons and pods on the White House Lawn. I was wrong earlier. Trump is Trump. He will drive it right into the wall. Nothing will sway his base. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=212) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=214)