# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 217
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4324 "2018-05-04T22:45:14Z")
How did the FBI know that the DNC servers were hacked? > **[The Perfect Weapon: How Russian Cyberpower Invaded the U.S. (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html)** > > A Times investigation reveals missed signals, slow responses and a continuing underestimation of the seriousness of a campaign to disrupt the 2016 presidential election. "When Special Agent Adrian Hawkins of the Federal Bureau of Investigation called the Democratic National Committee in September 2015 to pass along some troubling news about its computer network, he was transferred, naturally, to the help desk. His message was brief, if alarming. At least one computer system belonging to the D.N.C. had been compromised by hackers federal investigators had named “the Dukes,” a cyberespionage team linked to the Russian government. The F.B.I. knew it well: The bureau had spent the last few years trying to kick the Dukes out of the unclassified email systems of the White House, the State Department and even the Joint Chiefs of Staff, one of the government’s best-protected networks. Yared Tamene, the tech-support contractor at the D.N.C. who fielded the call, was no expert in cyberattacks. His first moves were to check Google for “the Dukes” and conduct a cursory search of the D.N.C. computer system logs to look for hints of such a cyberintrusion. By his own account, he did not look too hard even after Special Agent Hawkins called back repeatedly over the next several weeks — in part because he wasn’t certain the caller was a real F.B.I. agent and not an impostor." ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4325 "2018-05-04T22:56:36Z")
Goalposts… moved! ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4326 "2018-05-04T23:57:19Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > But it also speaks to the vast amount of incompetence on the Trump side that there’s this much material to wade through. “Stupid Watergate” is as good a name as any, but its just so much worse than that, in so many different ways. Honestly, Watergate was pretty stupid itself. This is Stupider Watergate. And everything else Trump does outside of the Russian investigation is Stupid Nixon ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4327 "2018-05-05T00:14:36Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > Honestly, Watergate was pretty stupid itself. This is Stupider Watergate. And everything else Trump does outside of the Russian investigation is Stupid Nixon Covfefe. It’s all just Covfefe. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4328 "2018-05-05T00:19:27Z")
Muller has nothing on Trump. Trump is not a suspect, and there is no evidence of evidence of collusion. All Mr. Muller has is about three dozen layer of questions, some of which if answered might yield conditioning answer based on the way they are written. This investigation isn’t about Russia at all. Its aimed to go after Trump’s connections and to slander his PResidency. Trump has the power to dismiss this carnival sideshow under article two. He’s not doing that. I get it, the Democratic base is worried about Trump’s possibly winning in 2020, and the media has fed them cap nit, using words like allegedly and according to sources without naming any. But the BS will stop soon, and I predict many areas of Muller’s work will look partisan once exposed by Trump’s legal team. A federal judge raised concerns on Thursday about the scope of special counsel Robert Mueller’s authority in the Russia investigation. The judge’s questions over Mueller’s power in the Russia probe came up in a hearing in the criminal case involving President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. > **[Mueller's authority in the Russia investigation has been called into question...](https://www.businessinsider.com/muellers-authority-in-russia-probe-federal-judge-2018-4)** > > A federal judge raised concerns on Thursday about the scope of Special Robert Mueller's authority in the Russia investigation. The judge accused Muller’s team of lying. Here what Hannity has to say. Sure he might be partisan too, but his words are powerful. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdXN4PQebq4) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4329 "2018-05-05T01:02:33Z")
You mean, Sean “Third Client” Hannity? The power level of his words on this subject is now exactly zero. Y’know, it occurs to me that there might be a bright side to the Trump administration. Most organized crime bosses are very careful to avoid connections with each other, and to keep their dealings discreet, and so on. So it’s very difficult to bring them to justice. But it seems like Trump has connections to every single criminal organization on the planet. Pull hard enough on those threads, and police worldwide might finally be able to take out organized crime once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4330 "2018-05-05T01:18:56Z")
[quote=“Silver\_lining, post:4328, topic:782799”] Muller has nothing on Trump. Trump is not a suspect, and there is no evidence of evidence of collusion. All Mr. Muller has is about three dozen layer of questions, some of which if answered might yield conditioning answer based on the way they are written. This investigation isn’t about Russia at all. Its aimed to go after Trump’s connections and to slander his PResidency. Trump has the power to dismiss this carnival sideshow under article two. He’s not doing that. I get it, the Democratic base is worried about Trump’s possibly winning in 2020, and the media has fed them cap nit, using words like allegedly and according to sources without naming any. But the BS will stop soon, and I predict many areas of Muller’s work will look partisan once exposed by Trump’s legal team. A federal judge raised concerns on Thursday about the scope of special counsel Robert Mueller’s authority in the Russia investigation. The judge’s questions over Mueller’s power in the Russia probe came up in a hearing in the criminal case involving President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. > **[Mueller's authority in the Russia investigation has been called into question...](https://www.businessinsider.com/muellers-authority-in-russia-probe-federal-judge-2018-4)** > > A federal judge raised concerns on Thursday about the scope of Special Robert Mueller's authority in the Russia investigation. The judge accused Muller’s team of lying. Here what Hannity has to say. Sure he might be partisan too, but his words are powerful. [/QUOTE] You’re going to get cheeto dust all over your mouth you keep doing that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4331 "2018-05-05T01:46:26Z")
Well, he did make a concession, fairly noting that Hannity might be partisan. Credit where credit is duh. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4332 "2018-05-05T02:49:15Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Muller has nothing on Trump… Umm, you kind of lost us right there. Many here _might_ have stopped reading at that point, so if you had something more cogent that you need us to see, you might want to reword it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4333 "2018-05-05T03:01:07Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > and there is no evidence of evidence of collusion. Once again… Lots and lots of evidence of collusion. There are only three ways someone could think there is none. 1. Non-standard definition of evidence. 2. Non-standard definition of collusion. 3. Ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4334 "2018-05-05T06:27:30Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > This investigation isn’t about Russia at all. Its aimed to go after Trump’s connections and to slander his PResidency. You mean the investigation initiated by the Republican party, being run by a Republican appointed FBI director with the sign-off from Richard Burr and Paul Ryan, and managed within an Executive branch cabinet appointed by Trump himself? Pray explain the rationale for the Republican party to go after Trump’s connections and slander his PResidency? :dubious: I’m fine with the concept that Mueller doesn’t have any evidence yet, but your theory here is, as nicely as I can put it, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4335 "2018-05-05T06:32:01Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > How did the FBI know that the DNC servers were hacked? > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html) > > "When Special Agent Adrian Hawkins of the Federal Bureau of Investigation called the Democratic National Committee in September 2015 to pass along some troubling news about its computer network, he was transferred, naturally, to the help desk. > > His message was brief, if alarming. At least one computer system belonging to the D.N.C. had been compromised by hackers federal investigators had named “the Dukes,” a cyberespionage team linked to the Russian government. > > The F.B.I. knew it well: The bureau had spent the last few years trying to kick the Dukes out of the unclassified email systems of the White House, the State Department and even the Joint Chiefs of Staff, one of the government’s best-protected networks. > > Yared Tamene, the tech-support contractor at the D.N.C. who fielded the call, was no expert in cyberattacks. His first moves were to check Google for “the Dukes” and conduct a cursory search of the D.N.C. computer system logs to look for hints of such a cyberintrusion. By his own account, he did not look too hard even after Special Agent Hawkins called back repeatedly over the next several weeks — in part because he wasn’t certain the caller was a real F.B.I. agent and not an impostor." [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848224](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848224) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4336 "2018-05-05T11:42:33Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > How did the FBI know that the DNC servers were hacked? > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html) > > "When Special Agent Adrian Hawkins of the Federal Bureau of Investigation called the Democratic National Committee in September 2015 to pass along some troubling news about its computer network, he was transferred, naturally, to the help desk. Adrian Hawkins was late to the party. By September 2015, the FBI had already been alerted, thanks to Dutch intelligence that Russian-goverment group Cozy Bear had been at work since November 2014. See here - > **[Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party](https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2213767-dutch-intelligence-first-to-alert-u-s-about-russian-hack-of-democratic-party.html)** > > Dutch intelligence services were the first to alert their American counterparts about the cyberintrusion of the Democratic National Committee by Cozy Bear, a hacking group believed to be tied to the Russian government. > [@Nieusvuur link above](#): > > In the Summer of 2015, Dutch intelligence services were the first to alert their American counterparts about the cyberintrusion of the Democratic National Committee by Cozy Bear, a hacking group believed to be tied to the Russian government. Intelligence hackers from Dutch AIVD (General Intelligence and Security Service) had penetrated the Cozy Bear computer servers as well as a security camera at the entrance of their working space, located in a university building adjacent to the Red Square in Moscow. > > Over the course of a few months, they saw how the Russians penetrated several U.S. institutions, including the State Department, the White House, and the DNC. On all these occasions, the Dutch alerted the U.S. intelligence services, Dutch tv programme Nieuwsuur and de Volkskrant, a prominent newspaper in The Netherlands, jointly report on Thursday. This account is based on interviews with a dozen political, diplomatic and intelligence sources in The Netherlands and the U.S. with direct knowledge of the matter. None of them wanted to speak on the record, given the classified details of the matter. > > Not only had Dutch intelligence penetrated the computer network of the hackers, they also managed to hack a security camera in the corridor. This allowed them to see exactly who entered the hacking room. Information about these individuals was shared with the US intelligence services. Dutch intelligence services consider Cozy Bear an extension of the SVR, the Russian foreign intelligence service, which is firmly controlled by President Putin. The article goes on to talk about how Cozy Bear are these “Dukes” that Hawkins was talking about. As you can see from that Bill Moyers’ Timeline I keep linking to - > **[Interactive Timeline: Everything We Know About Russia and President Trump](https://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/)** > > Explore our comprehensive Trump-Russia Timeline — or select one of the central players in the Trump-Russia saga to see what we know about them. The summer of 2015 is also when Trump formed his Presidential exploratory committee (although he’d been contemplating his run for years) & announced his candidacy. It’s when the Russians started buying ads on Facebook and setting up their pro-Trump Twitter campaign. And it’s when Donald told Hannity that he’d been in contact with Vladimir Putin. Any other questions? ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4337 "2018-05-05T13:29:22Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Adrian Hawkins was late to the party. By September 2015, the FBI had already been alerted, thanks to Dutch intelligence that Russian-goverment group Cozy Bear had been at work since November 2014. See here - > > [Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party](https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2213767-dutch-intelligence-first-to-alert-u-s-about-russian-hack-of-democratic-party.html) > > The article goes on to talk about how Cozy Bear are these “Dukes” that Hawkins was talking about. > > As you can see from that Bill Moyers’ Timeline I keep linking to - > > [Interactive Timeline: Everything We Know About Russia and President Trump](https://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/) > > The summer of 2015 is also when Trump formed his Presidential exploratory committee (although he’d been contemplating his run for years) & announced his candidacy. It’s when the Russians started buying ads on Facebook and setting up their pro-Trump Twitter campaign. And it’s when Donald told Hannity that he’d been in contact with Vladimir Putin. > > Any other questions? What else does Dutch iIntelligence know? If they had access to the hacker’s computers, surely they must have captured those emails about how they were doing all of hacking to help Trump get elected. How did the DNC server get hacked? I’ve read it might have been an inside job. Just because the Russians had access to the DNC servers doesn’t mean they did the hacking. Dark web, anyone? (Damn, that sounds cringey.) [https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/](https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/) Just because Trump started running for President at roughly the same time the hacks occurred is laughable circumstantial evidence at best. No one took his campaign seriously. I follow politics pretty closely and the notion he would beat 17 other more established GOP candidates was pure fantasy at the time. How could the Russians know that Trump would do as well as he did to justify getting behind him? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4338 "2018-05-05T14:43:54Z")
Dark Web _what_? That term has no relevance in this context. And the fact that Trump was running at the same time is laughable circumstantial evidence, yes. But the fact that multiple people in Trump’s employ were asking Russia to do it is the exact opposite of circumstantial. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4339 "2018-05-05T14:56:57Z")
They _didn’t_ know, _nobody_ knew. As far as they were concerned, anything that made Hillary look bad and/or disrupted the US electoral system was good for them. They were shit-disturbers, anything that caused trouble was a good thing, far as they were concerned. If you can win a thousand dollars betting a quarter that you can draw one card to an inside straight flush, its a long shot, but its a real good bet. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4340 "2018-05-05T16:21:11Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Muller has nothing on Trump. > > Trump is not a suspect, and there is no evidence of evidence of collusion. All Mr. Muller has is about three dozen layer of questions, some of which if answered might yield conditioning answer based on the way they are written. > > This investigation isn’t about Russia at all. Its aimed to go after Trump’s connections and to slander his PResidency. > > Trump has the power to dismiss this carnival sideshow under article two. He’s not doing that. I get it, the Democratic base is worried about Trump’s possibly winning in 2020, and the media has fed them cap nit, using words like allegedly and according to sources without naming any. But the BS will stop soon, and I predict many areas of Muller’s work will look partisan once exposed by Trump’s legal team. > > A federal judge raised concerns on Thursday about the scope of special counsel Robert Mueller’s authority in the Russia investigation. > > The judge’s questions over Mueller’s power in the Russia probe came up in a hearing in the criminal case involving President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. > > [Mueller's Authority in Russia Probe Called Into Question by Federal Judge](http://www.businessinsider.com/muellers-authority-in-russia-probe-federal-judge-2018-4) Interesting how in no place in that article is there a direct quote of Judge Jackson, but plenty of quoting of Manafort’s defense attorney. Nowhere in the article is there anything substantiating the tagline or the assertion made at the beginning of the article. Downing calls it into question. So let’s go to the original article that is quoted by BI: [Judge raises doubts about scope of Mueller’s authority](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/robert-mueller-appointment-authority-manafort-case-537491) > [@Politico](#): > > Manafort’s lead defense attorney, Kevin Downing, noted that the May 17 order appointing Mueller grants him authority to pursue the Trump-Russia probe as well as other issues that “may arise” from that investigation. Downing said that was at odds with Justice’s rules, which say a special counsel must be told of the “specific factual matter” in his or her mandate. > > “That’s a fair point,” Jackson said, adding later: “I don’t think that, as good as he is, that the deputy attorney general can see into the future.” > > … > > Mueller’s team argued Thursday that criminal defendants and the public at large have no right to enforce those regulations. Manafort’s attorneys insist he can use violations of those rules to challenge the legitimacy of the indictment, but Jackson gave little indication Thursday that she agrees with them. > > “It’s all happening within the Executive Branch,” Jackson noted. “I want to know if these [regulations] are actionable at all.” That’s the extent of her reported comments. Not exactly ‘questioning’ the scope of the Mueller team at all, nor does she appear to think that there’s any relevance if somehow Manafort’s lawyers were to prove that it was outside the scope of investigating Russian collusion (which it wasn’t). > [@](#): > > The judge accused Muller’s team of lying. She did? And you have evidence of this, of course? Because I see none whatsoever in either article. [QUOTE] Here what Hannity has to say. Sure he might be partisan too, but his words are powerful. [/QUOTE] Sean Hannity, the Ri Chun Hui of State TV? He has the same level of credibility of…oh, say Trump. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4341 "2018-05-05T18:05:12Z")
He cited Hannity, let me cite Maddow as to the central question of whether the Manafort case is tied to Russian interference. Warning - contains factual citations to documented events which occurred just yesterday: > ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4342 "2018-05-05T18:24:55Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Just because Trump started running for President at roughly the same time the hacks occurred is laughable circumstantial evidence at best. No one took his campaign seriously. I follow politics pretty closely and the notion he would beat 17 other more established GOP candidates was pure fantasy at the time. How could the Russians know that Trump would do as well as he did to justify getting behind him? Previously discussed: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20489876&postcount=2344](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20489876&postcount=2344) ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4343 "2018-05-06T00:34:43Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Previously discussed: > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20489876&postcount=2344](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20489876&postcount=2344) Advertising? Prior to his Presidential run, Trump was a B list celebrity at best. I knew of him but thought of him as primarily a New York guy. There is no way that Putin thought Trump held some sort of special access to the American public. Putin is former KGB and had to have recognized Trump for being the world class bullshit artist that he is. Trump was a known commodity so it wasn’t like he had some magical appeal that an unknown quantity like Senator Obama held. He was just a guy who could put together some real estate deals and television shows and had the appeal of being an American. I think Trump haters forget or rather choose to remember the past differently. With or without Trump in the race, the Russians would have hacked servers just like other entities have done for political gain, financial gain, or just to cause trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=216) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=218)