# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 237
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4725 "2018-07-16T19:13:12Z")
Back in February 2017, Buzzfeed published an [article](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-kremlin-and-gop-have-a-new-friendand-boy-does-she-love-guns) about a woman named Maria Butina (also spelled Mariia Butina), a Russian living in the DC area. The article described the close working relationship between Butina and long-time Republican insider Paul Erickson as well as Butina’s favored status among American gun rights activists. Buzzfeed reported several second hand accounts of Butina claiming that she passed communications between the Trump campaign and individuals in Russia. Well. [Today, Butina was charged with acting as an unregsitered agent of the Kremlin](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states). > [@](#): > > The court filings detail the Russian official’s and Butina’s efforts for Butina to act as an agent of Russia inside the United States by developing relationships with U.S. persons and infiltrating organizations having influence in American politics, for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian Federation. The filings also describe certain actions taken by Butina to further this effort during multiple visits from Russia and, later, when she entered and resided in the United States on a student visa. The filings allege that she undertook her activities without officially disclosing the fact that she was acting as an agent of Russian government, as required by law. The “Russian official” is probably Alexander Torshin, a former Russian Senator, and a man with reputed ties to Russian organized crime. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4726 "2018-07-16T19:20:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not questioning anything you’re saying on technical grounds (& FTR I think the whole Clinton email thing is overblown). > > But ISTM that it’s SOP for the FBI to take away the physical computers when they raid someplace. They don’t seem to worry too much about how it impacts anyone. (I once started a thread about it [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=797221).) How does that jibe with what you say? You’re right. They’ll most often take the hardware in a criminal matter. They would still image everything, but the defendant wouldn’t get their hardware back. Rather, they would be provided with a copy of the image during discovery along with any other evidence the government produces. I’d say it’s likely for a few reasons, but I don’t have a definitive answer as to why. I asked one of our white collar crime attorneys who often deals with the FBI and got his input as well. Most likely, it’s because they can. It’s easier for them to seize the equipment, take it back, and work on it at their leisure as opposed to sending forensic analysts out to image everything on premises. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4727 "2018-07-16T19:23:02Z")
Maria Butina, the Russian gun advocate tied to Alexander Torshin, who met repeatedly with NRA officials, has been detained, charged by US prosecutors today under FARA (!) [https://t.co/yStO3DJevk](https://t.co/yStO3DJevk) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4728 "2018-07-16T19:28:29Z")
Link to the DOJ site: > **[Russian National Charged in Conspiracy to Act as an Agent of the Russian...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states)** > > A criminal complaint was unsealed today in the District of Columbia charging a Russian national with conspiracy to act as an agent of the Russian Federation within the United States without prior notification to the Attorney General. Read pages five and 6 of the affidavit where it mentions “POLITICAL PARTY 1” and “GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION”. 1 guess as to whom they mean… ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4729 "2018-07-16T19:43:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “_You’re_ a puppet.” After Trump’s performance today, I think we are seeing that HRC was 100% correct when she said that. Trump basically smooched Putin’s butt in front of the entire world. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4730 "2018-07-16T20:15:16Z")
I really try not to see every piece of breaking news as some kind of bombshell. Honestly, I do. But this Butina indictment… Holy shit. First of all, she emailed to US Person 1 (probably Paul Erickson) that the Russians were expecting the Republicans to take control of the White House. This email was in **March of 2015**. Kinda curious on what basis they made that prediction. Then, in October 2016 Butina and her Russian government contact (Torshin, I think) exchanged Twitter DMs where Butina says “We made our bet… we will win” and Torshin replies, “Of course we will win!”. And all throughout 2016, she was trying to get invitations for Russian officials, including Putin himself, to the National Prayer Breakfast. It was as though they were so certain they would win, they had no compunctions about trying to score Vladimir Fucking Putin an invitation to the Prayer Breakfast. Erickson (assuming that’s who it is) was all-in on this, writing a personal email in October 2016 that said he was “involved in securing a VERY private line of communication between the Kremlin and key [Republican\*] leaders through, of all conduits, the [NRA\*]” (Asterisked names masked in the indictment; their identification seems obvious to me, I suppose I may be wrong.) Then, finally, there is not a smoking gun, but a smoking goddamn H-bomb. Butina writes to Erickson, regarding the Russian delegation to the Prayer Breakfast, that the Russian attendees are “very influential” and “_ **They are coming to establish a back channel of communication** _” (my emphasis, because Holy Fuck!). Then, after having dinner with US Person 2, who appears to be someone involved in setting up the Prayer Breakfast, Butina emails him to thank him and to say, “My dearest President has received ‘the message’ about your group initiative and your constructive and kind attention to the Russians.” Putting ‘the message’ in quotes. High quality tradecraft there. I wasn’t able to copy and paste from the indictment PDF. Apologies for any typos. Anyway, this is, like, a big fucking story, right? Here it is. An agent of the Russian government using the NRA and Christian groups to establish a back channel with Trump, whom they were suspiciously certain would win when everyone else was preparing for President Clinton. Uh… God. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4731 "2018-07-16T20:25:57Z")
Check out the body language. Who looks like they had a good meeting? Who looks like they got shelled? > ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4732 "2018-07-16T20:38:53Z")
And here’s Butina sharing a moment with former NRA President and Lon Chaney cosplay champion Wayne Lapierre: [https://twitter.com/AndrewZucker/status/1018955495779065857](https://twitter.com/AndrewZucker/status/1018955495779065857) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4733 "2018-07-16T20:40:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Check out the body language. Who looks like they had a good meeting? Who looks like they got shelled? > > [https://twitter.com/DevorrahTester/status/1018938503588122624?s=19](https://twitter.com/DevorrahTester/status/1018938503588122624?s=19) That is comedy gold, Jerry! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4734 "2018-07-16T20:43:42Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I really try not to see every piece of breaking news as some kind of bombshell. Honestly, I do. But this Butina indictment… > > Anyway, this is, like, a big fucking story, right? Here it is. An agent of the Russian government using the NRA and Christian groups to establish a back channel with Trump, whom they were suspiciously certain would win when everyone else was preparing for President Clinton. … I think you’re absolutely correct about the import of this. The only reason we won’t hear much about it today is that the US president just publicly bowed down and offered his full submission to the Russian president. That’s going to take up a lot of bandwidth. But the Butina connections to the Trump campaign do look, at this point, as though they cannot be explained as anything other than full-blown conspiracy to interfere with the US election. In other words: the goods. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4735 "2018-07-16T21:17:34Z")
I seriously do not want people to miss this: [Did you hear about Putin’s “incredible offer” to Trump?](https://apnews.com/3187ffc2e9d641f19d61e685f3da9dc2/Trump:-Putin-made-'incredible-offer'-in-Russian-hacking-case) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump said Monday that Russian President Vladimir Putin privately made an “incredible offer” to help American investigators in their prosecution of 12 Russian intelligence officers accused of hacking crimes during the 2016 presidential election. > > “He offered to have the people working on the case come and work with their investigators with respect to the 12 people,” Trump told reporters during a news conference in Helsinki following his joint summit with Putin. “I think that’s an incredible offer, OK?” Are you fucking kidding me? They’re flaunting it across the world… what are we going to do about it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4736 "2018-07-16T21:20:12Z")
> [@](#): > > …In other words: the goods. The smoking gub. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4737 "2018-07-16T21:20:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That is comedy gold, Jerry! I’m not laughing. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4738 "2018-07-16T21:24:17Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I seriously do not want people to miss this: [Did you hear about Putin’s “incredible offer” to Trump?](https://apnews.com/3187ffc2e9d641f19d61e685f3da9dc2/Trump:-Putin-made-'incredible-offer'-in-Russian-hacking-case)Are you fucking kidding me? They’re flaunting it across the world… what are we going to do about it? Remember that after the 2014 Sochi Olympics went well, Putin felt frisky enough to invade Ukraine and annex Crimea. Now the 2018 World Cup has gone well, and moreover, the entire world has just watched the American president bow down before Putin. How frisky might he be feeling _now_? So the question “what are we going to do about it” might apply not only to Putin’s trolling of the US (by offering to install his intelligence officers into the Mueller investigation)—it might apply to some action Putin might take. (Estonia, look out.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4739 "2018-07-16T21:29:23Z")
Well, as I pointed out in the Trump-Putin summit thread that was inexplicably moved to IMHO, the rumor has been that Trump will withdraw the US from Syria and hand control of things there over to Putin, which effectively hands him influence (and control) across the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4740 "2018-07-16T21:31:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well, as I pointed out in the Trump-Putin summit thread that was inexplicably moved to IMHO, the rumor has been that Trump will withdraw the US from Syria and hand control of things there over to Putin, which effectively hands him influence (and control) across the Middle East. And a very useful port on the Mediterranean. Think of what Putin could do with that! (Weird about IMHO. I didn’t realize political threads were being moved there.) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4741 "2018-07-16T21:36:27Z")
Not that mere photo ops mean a lot, but Butina seemed to get photos with lots of influential folks, including Scott Walker. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/maria-butina-photos-nra-leaders-gop](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/maria-butina-photos-nra-leaders-gop) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4742 "2018-07-16T21:46:30Z")
I have to hand it to Trump - today’s event was the most Presidential butt-snorkeling ever known. Pathetic in every way. He’s clearly Putin’s poodle. MRGA! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4743 "2018-07-16T21:53:47Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Not that mere photo ops mean a lot, but Butina seemed to get photos with lots of influential folks, including Scott Walker. > > [PHOTOS: Woman Charged For Acting As Russian Agent Mingled With NRA Execs, GOP Pols - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/maria-butina-photos-nra-leaders-gop) They liked being associated with guns, of course. ‘This brave Russian woman is fighting for the rights of gun owners even in strictly-controlled Russia!!’ and all that sort of thing. Also, they like money. And what we’re going to find out, I suspect, is that there was a LOT of money sloshing around. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4744 "2018-07-16T22:43:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Check out the body language. Who looks like they had a good meeting? Who looks like they got shelled? > > [https://twitter.com/DevorrahTester/status/1018938503588122624?s=19](https://twitter.com/DevorrahTester/status/1018938503588122624?s=19) Can’t. Not a dentist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=236) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=238)