# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 239
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4765 "2018-07-17T03:36:59Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Thing is, McCain, Flake, and Corker (and some others if they wanted) could flip tomorrow to caucus with the Senate Democrats and flip control of the Senate. Not enough to do much other than shut everything down for a few months, but it’d be more than they’re currently doing which is definitely nothing. But they’re not going to and we all know it. While McCain has continued his public disagreements with Trump, he’s been too ill to attend Senate sessions for months (and is unlikely to be able to do so in the future), but point taken. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4766 "2018-07-17T19:08:50Z")
I don’t really want to start a new thread about the 2016 elections so I’ll put this here: [Top Voting Machine Vendor Admits It Installed Remote-Access Software on Systems Sold to States](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mb4ezy/top-voting-machine-vendor-admits-it-installed-remote-access-software-on-systems-sold-to-states) > [@](#): > > The nation’s top voting machine maker has admitted in a letter to a federal lawmaker that the company installed remote-access software on election-management systems it sold over a period of six years, raising questions about the security of those systems and the integrity of elections that were conducted with them. > > In a letter sent to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) in April and obtained recently by Motherboard, Election Systems and Software acknowledged that it had “provided pcAnywhere remote connection software … to a small number of customers between 2000 and 2006,”… > > ES&S is the top voting machine maker in the country, a position it held in the years 2000-2006 when it was installing pcAnywhere on its systems. The company’s machines were used statewide in a number of states, and at least 60 percent of ballots cast in the US in 2006 were tabulated on ES&S election-management systems. It’s not clear why ES&S would have only installed the software on the systems of “a small number of customers” and not all customers, unless other customers objected or had state laws preventing this. > > … In 2006, the same period when ES&S says it was still installing pcAnywhere on election systems, hackers stole the source code for the pcAnyhere software, though the public didn’t learn of this until years later in 2012 when a hacker posted some of the source code online, forcing Symantec, the distributor of pcAnywhere, to admit that it had been stolen years earlier. Source code is invaluable to hackers because it allows them to examine the code to find security flaws they can exploit. When Symantec admitted to the theft in 2012, it took the unprecedented step of warning users to disable or uninstall the software until it could make sure that any security flaws in the software had been patched. > …In its letter to Wyden, ES&S defended its installation of pcAnywhere, saying that during the time it installed the software on customer machines prior to 2006, this was “considered an accepted practice by numerous technology companies, including other voting system manufacturers.” > > Motherboard contacted two of the top vendors—Hart InterCivic and Dominion—to verify this, but neither responded. However, Douglas Jones, professor of computer science at the University of Iowa and a longtime expert on voting machines confirmed that other companies did routinely install remote-access software during this period. > > “Certainly, [Diebold Election Systems] did the same, and I’d assume the others did too,” he told Motherboard. “In the case of [Diebold], many of their contracts with customers included the requirement of a remote-login port allowing [the company] to have remote access to the customer system in order to allow customer support" > > …As late as 2011 pcAnywhere was still being used on at least one ES&S customer’s election-management system in Venango County, Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4767 "2018-07-17T23:14:55Z")
Where’s the Legal Beagle and others whom a few pages ago argued there was no collusion and “information and espionage is not a thing of value?” They given up? Trump is undeniably a misogynistic, anti-Semitic, bigoted, xenophobic, narcistic, adulterous, liar. That simply cannot be argued. And he enjoys huge approval ratings within the Republican Party. Trump is the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4768 "2018-07-17T23:38:37Z")
That is true; he represents all of their most cherished values. Those are the values they demonstrate with their actions versus the values that they like to talk about holding dear. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4769 "2018-07-17T23:59:40Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > …Trump is undeniably a misogynistic, anti-Semitic, bigoted, xenophobic, narcistic, adulterous, liar. That simply cannot be argued. And he enjoys huge approval ratings within the Republican Party. Trump is the Republican Party. And every Republican running in November needs to be held to account for this. > [@](#): > > House Freedom Caucus members applaud President Donald Trump’s summit with Vladimir Putin Today: [House Freedom Caucus members applaud President Donald Trump's summit with Vladimir Putin - cleveland.com](https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/07/house_freedom_caucus_members_a.html) > [@](#): > > **House GOP stands by controversial finding in Russia report despite Putin’s preference for Trump** > Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee say they are standing by one of the key conclusions in their report on Russian election interference that questioned whether Russian President Vladimir Putin was trying to help Donald Trump get elected President. Today: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/politics/house-intelligence-committee-report-putin-comments/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/politics/house-intelligence-committee-report-putin-comments/index.html) It doesn’t matter how much ‘concern’ they tweet or voice on-camera. If they are voting to support Putin’s attack on the USA, then they need to be voted out. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4770 "2018-07-18T00:02:14Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I don’t really want to start a new thread about the 2016 elections so I’ll put this here: > > [Top Voting Machine Vendor Admits It Installed Remote-Access Software on Systems Sold to States](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mb4ezy/top-voting-machine-vendor-admits-it-installed-remote-access-software-on-systems-sold-to-states) > > > [@](#): > > > > … In 2006, the same period when ES&S says it was still installing pcAnywhere on election systems, hackers stole the source code for the pcAnyhere software, though the public didn’t learn of this until years later in 2012 when a hacker posted some of the source code online, forcing Symantec, the distributor of pcAnywhere, to admit that it had been stolen years earlier. Source code is invaluable to hackers because it allows them to examine the code to find security flaws they can exploit. … And this is probably only the tip of the iceberg. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4771 "2018-07-18T09:17:59Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Not that mere photo ops mean a lot, but Butina seemed to get photos with lots of influential folks, including Scott Walker. > > [PHOTOS: Woman Charged For Acting As Russian Agent Mingled With NRA Execs, GOP Pols - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/maria-butina-photos-nra-leaders-gop) Says under the pic that the guy on the other side of Walker is Alexander Torshin, Butina’s alleged boss. The WaPo posted a new story about her last night. One interesting (to me, at least) thing was how differently a liberal group reacted to her: > [@](#): > > She sparked alarm at one Washington-area civil rights group in June 2017, when she asked to interview the group’s director about its vulnerability to cyberattacks for a school project. > > “It was incredibly suspect activity,” said Jon Steinman, co-founder of HillCyber, a cybersecurity firm that consulted with the group. Steinman said he immediately contacted the FBI and was interviewed about the episode at length in January. Exactly the way **none** of the Trump campaign people reacted any of the dozens of times when Russians approached them. Ditto other right-wing pols, ditto the NRA, ditto the Christianist-right folks who run the National Prayer Breakfast…the list goes on, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4772 "2018-07-18T09:24:06Z")
Here’s the [link to that WaPo story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/she-was-like-a-novelty-how-alleged-russian-agent-maria-butina-gained-access-to-elite-conservative-circles/2018/07/17/1bb62bbc-89d2-11e8-a345-a1bf7847b375_story.html?utm_term=.6e1b6ee8a379). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4773 "2018-07-18T09:32:48Z")
I’m really hoping she’s like the modern day Mata Hari and she’s bedded ever single one of them too. It would really put a cherry on top of this cluster-fuck sundae. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4774 "2018-07-18T11:55:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > And this is probably only the tip of the iceberg. Of course. Their remote maintenance needs didn’t end in 2006. They might have stopped using PCanywhere, but all this means is they used another means to remote into their machines. Something custom written, perhaps something from Kaperski (sp)? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4775 "2018-07-18T12:28:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Says under the pic that the guy on the other side of Walker is Alexander Torshin, Butina’s alleged boss. > > The WaPo posted a new story about her last night. One interesting (to me, at least) thing was how differently a liberal group reacted to her: > Exactly the way **none** of the Trump campaign people reacted any of the dozens of times when Russians approached them. Ditto other right-wing pols, ditto the NRA, ditto the Christianist-right folks who run the National Prayer Breakfast…the list goes on, I’m sure. The liberal group acted differently because they believe in the preservation of democracy; conservatives do not. In fact, democracy is a roadblock to what they wish to achieve, which is a society in which the rich reap the gains during economic growth and the poor lose comparatively more during economic contraction. They also want to eliminate any and all social economic safety nets, but not just because they spend less of their own money in taxes. Economic disparity gives the uber wealthy more leverage, and by itself weakens democracy and the ability of ordinary people to fight back and challenge their power. If the masses are dependent on the spending decisions of a relative few, then that makes them dependent, and weak. They’ll be spending so much of their time just begging for income that they won’t have time for politics. Of course that assumes that they’re not in the streets in mass protest. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4776 "2018-07-18T14:38:58Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The liberal group acted differently because they believe in the preservation of democracy; conservatives do not. Several reporters I follow on Twitter have been posting about their interactions with random Trump supporters. As evidence of Russian interference in the election is becoming overwhelming, the man-in-the-street attitude seems to be shifting to “so what if the Russians meddled? What’s the big deal?” For many people, politics is just a sport now, where you root for your team blindly. So what if your team fiddled with the ball to get an advantage? So what if your players use PEDs? So what if the officials give your team the better calls? That’s life in the big leagues. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4777 "2018-07-18T14:50:40Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Several reporters I follow on Twitter have been posting about their interactions with random Trump supporters. As evidence of Russian interference in the election is becoming overwhelming, the man-in-the-street attitude seems to be shifting to “so what if the Russians meddled? What’s the big deal?” > > For many people, politics is just a sport now, where you root for your team blindly. So what if your team fiddled with the ball to get an advantage? So what if your players use PEDs? So what if the officials give your team the better calls? That’s life in the big leagues. I don’t think they see it as sport; their politics are very, very real. I think Trump supporters have a different view of who is really ‘American’ and how ‘America’ should be defined. I don’t mean that all conservatives view politics in this light, but I think that is what underlies the Trumpism that we see and hear. For many, America is an exclusive place, a members-only club. I think some might tolerate people of color, if they speak right, dress right, and don’t cause trouble. But having a white, Euro-America majority is critical: this what their America looks like. They view Russia as a friendly neighbor that is looking out for their own interests, helping them preserve their America and rejecting this multicultural, inclusive nonsense that the rest of us subscribe to. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4778 "2018-07-18T15:02:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think they see it as sport; their politics are very, very real. I think the notion is somewhat correct tho in that many people seem to think that the basic rules of sports competitions are how _all_ competitions are structured and play out. > [@asahi](#): > > I think Trump supporters have a different view of who is really ‘American’ and how ‘America’ should be defined. I don’t mean that all conservatives view politics in this light, but I think that is what underlies the Trumpism that we see and hear. For many, America is an exclusive place, a members-only club. I think some might tolerate people of color, if they speak right, dress right, and don’t cause trouble. But having a white, Euro-America majority is critical: this what their America looks like. Aye. > [@asahi](#): > > They view Russia as a friendly neighbor that is looking out for their own interests, helping them preserve their America and rejecting this multicultural, inclusive nonsense that the rest of us subscribe to. Great. :rolleyes: Now you’ve done it. 😉 Look for propagandists to start using the phrase “friendly neighbor” a lot. 😃 “America’s new foreign policy with Russia? That’s just Trump’s Friendly Neighbor policy! You’re gonna love it! And wait until you get a load of Putin’s Friendly Neighbor policy! Just ask Crimea, or Ukraine!” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4779 "2018-07-18T16:15:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I think the notion is somewhat correct tho in that many people seem to think that the basic rules of sports competitions are how _all_ competitions are structured and play out. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Of course they take it deadly seriously, but they view it as a zero-sum game where as long as your “side” is winning you don’t care how many rules they’re breaking. That’s just tough competition, and if the other team lost, it’s because they didn’t want it enough. ---
**Author:** ![Aescwynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Aescwynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aescwynn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4780 "2018-07-18T17:27:25Z")
Borrowed from a friend: “I defy you to watch literally any spy movie ever made and then tell me that Melania ISNT his KGB handler.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4781 "2018-07-18T19:16:30Z")
> [@Aescwynn](#): > > Borrowed from a friend: > > “I defy you to watch literally any spy movie ever made and then tell me that Melania ISNT his KGB handler.” Maybe I haven’t paid sufficient attention to her, but I had the impression that she had the intellect of a gold fish? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4782 "2018-07-18T19:21:23Z")
Updated release on Butina: > **[Document: Prosecutors Seek Pretrial Detention for Mariia Butina](https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-prosecutors-seek-pretrial-detention-mariia-butina)** > > The Department of Justice has filed a memorandum in support of pretrial detention ahead of Wednesday's detention hearing for Mariia Butina. Federal prosecutors unsealed a criminal complaint against Butina on July 16 and a federal grand jury returned... One suspects that they were rushing to get the previous release out. This one contains a fair amount more information. The bit about US Person 1 going with her to a U-Haul facility, where we know that US Person 1 is like a ~55 year old man, and she’s a 29 year old Russian college student, leads me to think that he’s up to his teeth in her and her actions here. I’m doubting that he’ll end up not being charged. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4783 "2018-07-18T19:24:32Z")
Possible that his teeth weren’t the only thing up in her… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4784 "2018-07-18T20:50:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Maybe I haven’t paid sufficient attention to her, but I had the impression that she had the intellect of a gold fish? Which is about 10x of the person she’s handling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=238) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=240)