# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 247
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4925 "2018-08-21T21:00:34Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And no matter what the moron in the Oval Office tweets to his supporters, no one is trying to charge him with collusion. C’mon America- snap the fuck out of it. Stop even using the word “collusion” as it plays right into Trump’s spin of “collusion is not a crime.” The words to use are “conspiracy”, “conspiracy with the Russians” and it can also be pronounced as “traitor.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4926 "2018-08-21T21:04:02Z")
Mm, Christmas. In Japan, eight is considered a lucky/holy number. They must be on to something. Manafort convicted of eight counts and Cohen pleads guilty to eight charges. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4927 "2018-08-21T21:06:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My question, which I imagine articles will answer soon: what sort of prison time is he looking at for those eight charges? > > This may turn out to be an amazing result for Mueller, if the prison time is moderate. If he can say, “You’re behind bars for ten years, Manafort. If you cooperate now, we see no need to retry you on the remaining ten charges.” CNN is saying on TV Manafort is facing up to 80 years. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4928 "2018-08-21T21:07:04Z")
As per the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/manafort-jury-suggests-it-cannot-come-to-a-consensus-on-a-single-count/2018/08/21/a2478ac0-a559-11e8-a656-943eefab5daf_story.html?utm_term=.b44107915ff0): > [@](#): > > Manafort was convicted on five counts of filing false tax returns, one count of not filing a required IRS form, and two bank fraud counts. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4929 "2018-08-21T21:07:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mm, Christmas. > > In Japan, eight is considered a lucky/holy number. They must be on to something. Manafort convicted of eight counts and Cohen pleads guilty to eight charges. And ten times eight is 80 – the total amount of possible years Manafort is facing! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4930 "2018-08-21T21:09:23Z")
And, meanwhile, as per [Bloomberg’s article on Cohen’s guilty pleas](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-21/michael-cohen-appears-in-court-over-hush-payments-plea-update): > [@](#): > > In acknowledging the charges against him, Cohen said he was directed to violate campaign law at the direction of a candidate for federal office. At the same candidate’s direction, he said he paid $130,000 to somebody to keep them quiet, which was later repaid by the candidate. He didn’t identify the candidate or the person who was paid, but those facts match Cohen’s payment to Clifford and Trump’s repayment. > [@](#): > > The prosecutor told the judge the purpose of the payments was to ensure that the individuals did not disclose “alleged affairs with the candidate.” Besides the $130,000 payment, Cohen admitted to making an illegal contribution of $150,000, which was how much McDougal received from the National Enquirer’s publisher to quash her story. > > At no time was the candidate’s name mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4931 "2018-08-21T21:20:55Z")
Senate wants Cohen back to talk about the purported leaks that Trump was aware of the Veselnitskaya meeting. > **[Senate Intelligence Committee leaders want Cohen to testify again](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/402907-senate-leaders-overseeing-russia-investigation-say-they-want-cohen-to/)** > > The leaders of the Senate Intelligence Committee said on Tuesday that they want President Trump’s former lawyer Michael Cohen to testify before the panel regarding recent media… ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4932 "2018-08-21T21:50:24Z")
we could have 2 impeachments in 20 years due to guys who can’t keep their pants on. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4933 "2018-08-21T22:13:20Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Stop even using the word “collusion” as it plays right into Trump’s spin of “collusion is not a crime.” > > The words to use are “conspiracy”, “conspiracy with the Russians” and it can also be pronounced as “traitor.” Uh, yeah. See, that’s why he’s not going to be charged with collusion. It ain’t a charge. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4934 "2018-08-21T22:26:18Z")
The criminal information (details) Cohen pleaded guilty to is underneath the plea agreement here: > **[Document: Michael Cohen Plea Agreement](https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-michael-cohen-plea-agreement)** > > The plea agreement reached by the president's former personal lawyer Michael Cohen with prosecutors in the Southern District of New York is available in full below. We will add other documents as they are available. Update: The criminal information... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4935 "2018-08-22T00:41:04Z")
> [@](#): > > At no time was the candidate’s name mentioned. So I guess the real question here is, was it Hillary, or was it Jill Stein? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4936 "2018-08-22T02:38:09Z")
> **[Lanny Davis: Cohen ‘more than happy’ to tell Mueller ‘all that he knows’](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/402954-lanny-davis-cohen-is-more-than-happy-to-tell-the-special-counsel-all/)** > > Michael Cohen’s attorney on Tuesday night said his client had knowledge that would be “of interest” to Robert Mueller and would be willing to tell the special counsel “a… Cohen’s lawyer seems to be making a request for Mueller to come talk to them. If I’m honest, Cohen’s plea deal seems quite strange. He doesn’t seem to have arranged a cooperation deal, so…? One theory might be that he figured that the more they looked into his documents, the more crimes they’d find, so he was better off to plead ASAP in the hope that it would stop them from continuing to look. Maybe he has some secret money cached somewhere and, knowing that a bunch of banks and the IRS are going to come and gobble up all of his money while he’s in jail, he needs to keep the FBI from digging too far into his finances and revealing the secret cache, just to keep his family fed. Alternately, it could be that he has nothing, and innuendo will get him a book deal - where he can lie freely - but it won’t help him with the feds, because they’ll actually double check his story. I’d be surprised if he didn’t know anything, though. Maybe he somehow wasn’t brought in on anything to do with Russia, but it seems unlikely that he didn’t do illegal things for Trump, beyond paying off women. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4937 "2018-08-22T02:45:25Z")
I feel that it should also be noted, looking at the plea deal, that it seems likely that David Pecker is guilty of conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws. It feels like, with a witness pleading guilty to the crime, it shouldn’t take a lot of extra time or effort to issue an indictment against the Pecker. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4938 "2018-08-22T12:58:56Z")
Could Cohen’s plea be a ploy to earn a pardon from Trump? I’m thinking it could go something like this: 1. Trump can’t pardon someone until after they are convicted of a Federal crime. 2. Cohen knows that he’s guilty and that conviction is likely. 3. If Cohen goes to court and defends himself, that would require throwing Trump under the bus or otherwise implicating the President. 4. If Cohen throws Trump under the bus, the chances of a Presidential pardon drop to zero. 5. However, if Cohen pleads guilty, then he doesn’t have to testify, and therefore doesn’t throw Trump under the bus. 6. Having plead guilty and not implicated the President, Cohen’s chances of a pardon stay alive. 7. Cohen making comments regarding “a candidate” are a message to Trump that Cohen still has dirt on the President and is willing to use it, IF a pardon isn’t forthcoming. The above is all conjecture, of course. But it’s the only way his guilty plea makes sense to me without some agreement for cooperation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4939 "2018-08-22T13:07:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So I guess the real question here is, was it Hillary, or was it Jill Stein? Coulda been Pence. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4940 "2018-08-22T13:51:03Z")
I heard Cohen’s lawyer on tv this morning. He said Cohen’s view of his former boss has evolved from being willing to take a bullet for him to (after Helsinki) thinking that he is totally unfit for office. Cohen has already stated that Donald (aka Person Number One) directed him to commit a felony. I don’t think he can recant that, it was stated in court yesterday. There is no incentive to give him a pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4941 "2018-08-22T14:02:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I heard Cohen’s lawyer on tv this morning. He said Cohen’s view of his former boss has evolved from being willing to take a bullet for him to (after Helsinki) thinking that he is totally unfit for office. Cohen has already stated that Donald (aka Person Number One) directed him to commit a felony. I don’t think he can recant that, it was stated in court yesterday. There is no incentive to give him a pardon. Yeah - I think you’re right. Things are moving too fast for me to keep up apparently. Also - the fact that Cohen’s lawyer said this morning that Cohen wouldn’t accept a pardon even if it was offered probably puts an end to that line of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4942 "2018-08-22T15:11:33Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > One theory might be that he figured that the more they looked into his documents, the more crimes they’d find, so he was better off to plead ASAP in the hope that it would stop them from continuing to look. Aha! The ol’ dead dog ploy to hide a body. [ul] [li]Dig a deep hole.[/li][li]Throw in the body.[/li][li]Backfill some.[/li][li]Throw in the dead dog[/li][li]Top off the hole.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4943 "2018-08-22T15:28:58Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Aha! The ol’ dead dog ploy to hide a body. > [ul] > [li]Dig a deep hole.[/li][li]Throw in the body.[/li][li]Backfill some.[/li][li]Throw in the dead dog[/li][li]Top off the hole.[/li][/ul] Disturbing user handle/ post combo. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4944 "2018-08-22T18:52:55Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Disturbing user handle/ post combo. Kinda makes you wonder if he deserted a dog… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=246) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=248)