# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 249
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4965 "2018-08-23T16:09:48Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > …\* also cheered that the dedicated Trump supporter who went on Fox was admitted her political leanings and said she still had to vote to convict based on the facts… [shortened your post] here’s a link to a Fox Interview of her [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/23/manafort-juror-mueller-teams-star-witness-deserves-special-place-in-hell.html](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/23/manafort-juror-mueller-teams-star-witness-deserves-special-place-in-hell.html) I really think this is important, so I’m adding to your post. This lady understands America and its core ideals and gives me great hope they are not lost. She openly states she did not want to convict Manafort (going into the trial) because she’s so pro-Trump, but that Manafort “broke the law”. That’s a lady who understands the Rule of Law. That’s actually refreshing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4966 "2018-08-23T16:15:05Z")
Even a journey of a thousand miles can begin with a single stumble. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4967 "2018-08-23T16:45:35Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > it was 11-1 on all 10 counts with the 1 guy holding out. A guy who was willing to convict on the other 8. I suspect that will encourage the prosecution to retry the other 10 charges, unless Manafort cuts a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4968 "2018-08-23T17:44:57Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > [shortened your post] > > here’s a link to a Fox Interview of her [Manafort juror: Mueller team's star witness 'deserves a special place in Hell' | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/23/manafort-juror-mueller-teams-star-witness-deserves-special-place-in-hell.html) > > I really think this is important, so I’m adding to your post. This lady understands America and its core ideals and gives me great hope they are not lost. She openly states she did not want to convict Manafort (going into the trial) because she’s so pro-Trump, but that Manafort “broke the law”. That’s a lady who understands the Rule of Law. That’s actually refreshing. Yeah, except there’s a weird quote where she acknowledges that he was a crook, but only got caught because he was wrapped up in Donald Trump. Not much of an excuse for a law & order type. Sounds a bit muddled, like saying he’d be innocent if only he hadn’t been caught. Maybe she was trying to express what was posted above, that he was only prosecuted based on Trump relations. Still, she voted to convict despite her admitted prejudice to acquit. I respect her for that and her honesty in the interview. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4969 "2018-08-23T18:09:53Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Yeah, except there’s a weird quote where she acknowledges that he was a crook, but only got caught because he was wrapped up in Donald Trump. > > Not much of an excuse for a law & order type. Sounds a bit muddled, like saying he’d be innocent if only he hadn’t been caught… I have no idea, but let me take a stab at her thinking (and possibly many others). If the police one day decide to put 30 cops on patrol in my neighborhood to catch people for speeding/stop signs, and do this day in day out, and don’t do this in any other neighborhood (even though lots of people in lots of neighborhoods speed), it’s not unreasonable to consider that a “witch hunt” even though the police are only charging people with legitimately breaking the law and there are several people in the neighborhood who speed/don’t stop. In this juror’s mind, that’s what witch hunt means to her, and even still, the evidence showed guilt so she convicted. I don’t agree, but that’s my take. I’ve never considered people might view the Mueller probe (“witch hunt”) that way. I’ve always thought witch hunt to mean what the President thinks it means - it’s all made up, nothing to see (i.e., no one ever sped, ever!!!). The thing I take away is “witch hunt” didn’t overshadow/taint the evidence presented by Mueller’s team against Manafort, as you also noted. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4970 "2018-08-23T18:58:37Z")
They gave the national enquirer publisher immunity to testify in the probe of Cohen. Guess he’s no longer a BFF of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4971 "2018-08-23T20:51:10Z")
For funsies, check out Rachel Maddow on Karen McDougal’s appearance on the cover of _Men’s Journal_, She is having _such_ a good time! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/f-zaokcm-mM/maxresdefault.jpg "Magazine's Odd Model Choice: A Cover Story Or A Cover Story? | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-zaokcm-mM) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4972 "2018-08-23T21:09:44Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > I have no idea, but let me take a stab at her thinking (and possibly many others). > > If the police one day decide to put 30 cops on patrol in my neighborhood to catch people for speeding/stop signs, and do this day in day out, and don’t do this in any other neighborhood (even though lots of people in lots of neighborhoods speed), it’s not unreasonable to consider that a “witch hunt” even though the police are only charging people with legitimately breaking the law and there are several people in the neighborhood who speed/don’t stop. In this juror’s mind, that’s what witch hunt means to her, and even still, the evidence showed guilt so she convicted. I don’t agree, but that’s my take. > > I’ve never considered people might view the Mueller probe (“witch hunt”) that way. More of a speed trap for flying brooms, then. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4973 "2018-08-23T21:14:42Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > More of a speed trap for flying brooms, then. “Accio Firebolt!” ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4974 "2018-08-23T22:19:54Z")
Enquirer had a special safe just for info on Trump related stories they killed [AP: National Enquirer hid damaging Trump stories in a safe](https://www.yahoo.com/news/reports-immunity-tabloid-ceo-trump-hush-money-probe-183131025.html) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4975 "2018-08-23T22:38:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > For funsies, check out Rachel Maddow on Karen McDougal’s appearance on the cover of _Men’s Journal_, She is having _such_ a good time! > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-zaokcm-mM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-zaokcm-mM) That was good. Kind of makes me wish I still had cable tv. Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4976 "2018-08-24T03:17:11Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > I have no idea, but let me take a stab at her thinking (and possibly many others). > > If the police one day decide to put 30 cops on patrol in my neighborhood to catch people for speeding/stop signs, and do this day in day out, and don’t do this in any other neighborhood (even though lots of people in lots of neighborhoods speed), it’s not unreasonable to consider that a “witch hunt” even though the police are only charging people with legitimately breaking the law and there are several people in the neighborhood who speed/don’t stop. In this juror’s mind, that’s what witch hunt means to her, and even still, the evidence showed guilt so she convicted. I don’t agree, but that’s my take. > > I’ve never considered people might view the Mueller probe (“witch hunt”) that way. I’ve always thought witch hunt to mean what the President thinks it means - it’s all made up, nothing to see (i.e., no one ever sped, ever!!!). > > The thing I take away is “witch hunt” didn’t overshadow/taint the evidence presented by Mueller’s team against Manafort, as you also noted. I work for a lot of wealthy people in New York real estate and finance. And guys you’ve never heard of get indicted on federal charges like this all the time. Because they got caught. Usually because someone told on them. And the feds are relentless once they’re on to you. You’re right, it’s not a witch hunt, it’s the feds doing what they do. If an illicit transaction gets media attention, they WILL investigate it. My thought on the traffic cops analogy is if one of your neighbors was a school bus driver for special needs children that had a reputation for driving drunk, maybe the police would pay special attention to your neighborhood. And it might suck to get caught up in it, but that’s the breaks. It actually happens to people that live near nightclubs and such. You learn to drive carefully, The point I was trying to make with the above, is that President of the United States is a job of incredible importance that requires great integrity and we have the right to expect him to be beyond reproach. Any hint of wrongdoing on the part of that officeholder should be taken seriously. We should not be turning a blind eye to tax fraud on the part of the President because other people have gotten away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4977 "2018-08-24T03:21:18Z")
I didn’t see this yesterday, but this seems relatively conclusive: > **[Was Cohen In Prague In 2016? Lawyer Says ‘Never, Never In Prague! Ever! Ever!’](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/was-cohen-in-prague-in-2016-lawyer-says-never-never-in-prague-ever-ever)** > > Former Trump fixer Michael Cohen has long denied that he went to Prague in 2016 to meet Russian intelligence agents, as the Steele dossier alleged. In April, McClatchy reported that special counsel… If Steele was wrong in every reference of Cohen, then that’s pretty damning of the dossier, unless every Cohen reference came from the same source (which, I would have to review, but it seems pretty unlikely). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4978 "2018-08-24T04:05:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I didn’t see this yesterday, but this seems relatively conclusive: > > [Was Cohen In Prague In 2016? Lawyer Says ‘Never, Never In Prague! Ever! Ever!’ - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/was-cohen-in-prague-in-2016-lawyer-says-never-never-in-prague-ever-ever) > > If Steele was wrong in every reference of Cohen, then that’s pretty damning of the dossier, unless every Cohen reference came from the same source (which, I would have to review, but it seems pretty unlikely). The only people denying the trip to Prague are Cohen and Lanny Davis, his lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4979 "2018-08-24T04:19:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A guy who was willing to convict on the other 8. > > I suspect that will encourage the prosecution to retry the other 10 charges, unless Manafort cuts a deal. They don’t need to. They have actual felon (not be the confused with illusionary felon Hillary Clinton) on trial next month for the ACTUAL shit - the foreign lobbying. This case was just the set up for the punchline. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4980 "2018-08-24T10:03:50Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The only people denying the trip to Prague are Cohen and Lanny Davis, his lawyer. Who are both, currently, begging Mueller to come talk to them and saying that they’re happy to spill the beans about anything they possibly can. I can’t think of any good reason at this point for Cohen to deny the Steele info, except in the case that it’s just not true. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4981 "2018-08-24T17:29:46Z")
Hell, must be something he’s not guilty of. And doesn’t the whole “went to Prague” thing predate the revelations that the Russians came _here_? So, they didn’t try to hide it, but maybe that’s because they figured they didn’t have to? Subterfuge and skulduggery to win elections, is that some sort of crime, now? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4982 "2018-08-24T17:45:06Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Who are both, currently, begging Mueller to come talk to them and saying that they’re happy to spill the beans about anything they possibly can. > > I can’t think of any good reason at this point for Cohen to deny the Steele info, except in the case that it’s just not true. Let’s remember that truth isn’t truth. According to Michael Cohen, “I’m very proud to have served Donald J. Trump for all these years, and I’ll continue to support him.” [https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/read-michael-cohen-statement/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/read-michael-cohen-statement/index.html) Maybe Cohen was in Prague. Maybe he wasn’t. Maybe it was Paris and not Prague. But I’m not going to assume what Cohen says is true: even if he totally sells out Trump, I’d like to see some corroboration of his claims, whether it is about his innocence or Trump’s guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4983 "2018-08-24T18:11:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/402954-lanny-davis-cohen-is-more-than-happy-to-tell-the-special-counsel-all](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/402954-lanny-davis-cohen-is-more-than-happy-to-tell-the-special-counsel-all) > > Cohen’s lawyer seems to be making a request for Mueller to come talk to them. > > If I’m honest, Cohen’s plea deal seems quite strange. He doesn’t seem to have arranged a cooperation deal, so…? > > One theory might be that he figured that the more they looked into his documents, the more crimes they’d find, so he was better off to plead ASAP in the hope that it would stop them from continuing to look. Maybe he has some secret money cached somewhere and, knowing that a bunch of banks and the IRS are going to come and gobble up all of his money while he’s in jail, he needs to keep the FBI from digging too far into his finances and revealing the secret cache, just to keep his family fed. > > Alternately, it could be that he has nothing, and innuendo will get him a book deal - where he can lie freely - but it won’t help him with the feds, because they’ll actually double check his story. > > I’d be surprised if he didn’t know also anything, though. Maybe he somehow wasn’t brought in on anything to do with Russia, but it seems unlikely that he didn’t do illegal things for Trump, beyond paying off women. It’s not uncommon for people to make plea deals that don’t involve cooperation. The prosecution gets a guaranteed conviction and the defendant gets a reduced sentence. Everyone wins. So it’s not like there’s any question as to why Cohen would make a plea deal if he wasn’t going to cooperate. The only question then is why not cooperate and get an even better deal. My guess is some combination of 1) much of what Cohen might say about Trump is possibly (probably?) protected by attorney-client privilege and not subject to cooperation, 2) a lot can be gleaned via texts & emails etc and doesn’t require cooperation, and 3) Cohen is probably thought of as a very unreliable source to begin with. (Worth noting that a juror discussing the Manafort deliberations said the jury disregarded Gates’ testimony entirely and convicted Manafort based on documents alone.) In light of this it’s possible that the prosecutors were not willing to offer Cohen much additional leniency for cooperating, such that Cohen had little incentive to do it. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/4984 "2018-08-24T18:19:43Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Who are both, currently, begging Mueller to come talk to them and saying that they’re happy to spill the beans about anything they possibly can. Or maybe they had something specific to offer Mueller, and not really planning to “spill the beans about everything they possibly can.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=248) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=250)