# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 256
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5105 "2018-11-27T09:13:39Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > In the eyes of the cited code, they did the exact same thing. As I said, solicitation is enough to satisfy the requirements of a violation of the code. It doesn’t matter if the Clinton campaign used the information, or whether they provided it to the FBI after the fact, merely soliciting a “thing of value” from a foreign national is a violation (again, assuming damaging information on a political rival falls under the code). Fusion GPS is an American investigative company who were paid by the hour, choosing their own means of collecting information. The Russian government is a foreign agency with good reason to try and arrange a quid-pro-quo. The receipt of foreign goods statute exists to prevent Americans from having their loyalty strained. It does not prevent one from, for example, purchasing a Volvo at an American car dealership, to use in your campaign as a vehicle for transporting posters. It does prevent one from accepting free Volvos from a Swedish diplomat, because he wants you to be favorable to his government after the election. Now obviously, one could always structure things in such a way that you can say that “well I’m just paying a disinterested third party for some product that happened to be produced in a foreign state”, just as one can structure a series of payments to all be less than $10k try and evade reporting laws. If you’re discovered and its provable that it was structured in that way, then you’re liable for the crime. But if it wasn’t structured, and you’re really just purchasing goods from a local vendor who happens to source materials internationally, that’s not a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5106 "2018-11-27T14:42:38Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Are you implying that Don Jr. did? Because I’m not aware that he did that. He was offered information. > > I’m going to take a wild stab here and guess you’re talking about Trump’s, “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you can find those 30,000 emails Hillary deleted.” > > If that’s what you mean, I think it would be hard to prove in a court that that was a serious request. I certainly thought he was being snarky at the time, but I can’t get inside his head. The important thing is that I wonder how easily it could be proven that Trump was attempting to solicit criminal action at a press conference. What if, [and I’m just spitballing here](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other), Trump’s campaign manager directly met with the person who leaked the emails? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5107 "2018-11-27T15:16:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > What if, [and I’m just spitballing here](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other), Trump’s campaign manager directly met with the person who leaked the emails? Imagine, 5YL… Imagine if, and like you I’m just theorizing here… what if the President’s own son agreed to meet with a Russian official to discuss the Russians governments “support of Mr. Trump” in an email chain entitled “Russia - Clinton - Private and Confidential”, this meeting supposedly taking place at the Trump campaign HQ (Trump Tower) including Paul Manafort (fucked), Jared Kushner (likely fucked), and Don Jr (definitely fucked), which was about the Trump campaign coordinating campaign messaging with the Russians, including the expectation of receipt of “incriminating” evidence against Hillary Clinton? And then… imagine if Don Jr. confessed to having this meeting and then [posted the entire email exchange on Twitter](https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/884789418455953413?lang=en)? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5108 "2018-11-27T16:03:07Z")
Manafort lied after taking his plea deal which could mean the plea deal is not valid > **[Manafort lied after pleading guilty, Mueller's team says | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/paul-manafort-court-filing-russia-investigation/index.html)** > > Paul Manafort has "breached" his plea agreement with the Justice Department by lying to the FBI and special counsel Robert Mueller's office two months after he started cooperating in the Russia probe, prosecutors said in a new court filing Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5109 "2018-11-27T16:09:48Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Manafort lied after taking his plea deal which could mean the plea deal is not valid > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/paul-manafort-court-filing-russia-investigation/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/paul-manafort-court-filing-russia-investigation/index.html) Bill Kristol had an interesting tweet this morning: > [@](#): > > Trump’s upset and worried about Mueller this morning. Why? One reason could be that Trump said things in his written answers a week ago that were in sync with what Manafort was saying, but that Trump now realizes Mueller can disprove? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5110 "2018-11-27T16:38:39Z")
and Manafort visited Assange in London in 2016. > **[Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy, sources say](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy)** > > Trump ally met WikiLeaks founder months before emails hacked by Russia were published, sources say ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5111 "2018-11-27T16:46:09Z")
The neat thing is that people can quibble here about whether they think what Don Jr did was legal or illegal but the only view that matters is Mueller’s and he’s unlikely to make any move without solid evidence in place. So if he does go after Don Jr, the boy is toast. And unlike the Flynns, Daddy is unlikely to cop a plea to save his son (or son-on-law). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5112 "2018-11-27T16:47:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The neat thing is that people can quibble here about whether they think what Don Jr did was legal or illegal but the only view that matters is Mueller’s and he’s unlikely to make any move without solid evidence in place. So if he does go after Don Jr, the boy is toast. And unlike the Flynns, Daddy is unlikely to cop a plea to save his son (or son-on-law). yes but Trump Sr. will have no problem pardoning his family and friends. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5113 "2018-11-27T17:21:30Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Manafort lied after taking his plea deal which could mean the plea deal is not valid > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/paul-manafort-court-filing-russia-investigation/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/paul-manafort-court-filing-russia-investigation/index.html) Manafort is so utterly megafucked that I almost feel sorry for him. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5114 "2018-11-27T17:52:01Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Bill Kristol had an interesting tweet this morning: So, Trump may have failed his open book exam. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5115 "2018-11-27T20:13:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Manafort is so utterly megafucked that I almost feel sorry for him. I don’t feel sorry for him, but I would have preferred that he spilled each and every bean that were ever there to be spilled, truthfully and fulsomely, so that Mueller could just go ahead and arrest everyone. And, in particular, I would have wanted for Manafort to serve as a witness against Trump. The treason statute requires two witnesses. Manafort would clearly be one. Gates or maybe Stone could serve as a second - I’m not sure - but you probably need at least Manafort in order to go for treason. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5116 "2018-11-27T22:49:32Z")
I’m not that interested in sending anyone to jail, I just want the truth, the whole truth, laid before a jury in open court, for everyone to see. And, of course, take all the money. Lots of good things we can do with that money. First thing is the cool, crisp joy of taking it. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5117 "2018-11-27T23:15:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > … And, in particular, I would have wanted for Manafort to serve as a witness against Trump. The treason statute requires two witnesses. Manafort would clearly be one. Gates or maybe Stone could serve as a second - I’m not sure - but you probably need at least Manafort in order to go for treason. Lest we forget: Mike Flynn is still waiting in the wings. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Manafort is so utterly megafucked that I almost feel sorry for him. There’s a lot of speculation about why Manafort apparently lied freely and without ceasing. There’s the ‘he expects a pardon theory,’ the ‘he fears Russian oligarchs more than he fears US prison’ theory, and the ‘he’s a con man born and bred and simply lies all the time because he thinks, against all the evidence, that he’ll get away with it’ theory. I incline to the third, with touches of the first. Time will tell, I guess. > [@Gyrate](#): > > The neat thing is that people can quibble here about whether they think what Don Jr did was legal or illegal but the only view that matters is Mueller’s and he’s unlikely to make any move without solid evidence in place. So if he does go after Don Jr, **the boy is toast**. He’s 40. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5118 "2018-11-27T23:23:08Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Lest we forget: Mike Flynn is still waiting in the wings. Mueller cut him loose a couple of months ago. I think he was holding for something in regards to Manafort but he’s done with him otherwise. I think he may have come in later than the period we’re mostly concerned with, but possibly not. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5119 "2018-11-27T23:36:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mueller cut him loose a couple of months ago. I think he was holding for something in regards to Manafort but he’s done with him otherwise. > > I think he may have come in later than the period we’re mostly concerned with, but possibly not. He began advising Trump (according to Reuters) in February 2016. And of course he had Russian connections earlier (including the infamous RT dinner with Putin the previous December). I’m not sure about ‘cut loose’–do we have solid information that Mueller will not call him as a witness in any proceeding? In any case, he’ll be sentenced three weeks from today, I believe. An interesting tidbit from the timeline: > [@](#): > > June 15 2018: The Washington Post reports that the FBI and federal prosecutors have been “examining the financial dealings” of Kushner, Flynn, former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former foreign policy adviser Carter Page. [Michael Flynn's Russia Timeline - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2017/12/michael-flynns-russia-timeline/) I’m not claiming to have special knowledge; I’m just suggesting that Flynn is still a part of this unfolding saga. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5120 "2018-11-27T23:47:44Z")
Surprisingly, Corsi’s statement that he was just “conjecturing” is contradicted by his own emails: > **[Mueller docs show communications between Corsi, Stone on WikiLeaks’s email...](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/418567-mueller-docs-show-communications-between-corsi-stone-on-wikileaks/)** > > Jerome Corsi, a right-wing conspiracy theorist, anticipated in emails to Roger Stone that WikiLeaks was planning to release another tranche of stolen and damaging documents ahead of the 2016 presid… ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5121 "2018-11-27T23:56:24Z")
My apologies: the note about Flynn’s finances being investigated came from 2017, not 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5122 "2018-11-28T00:29:50Z")
> **[Manafort allegations throw new uncertainty into Russia probe](https://apnews.com/article/151f08db395847028c7fe9527444b0f8)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — The breakdown of a plea deal with former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and an explosive British news report about alleged contacts he may have had with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange threw a new element of uncertainty into... > [@](#): > > At the same time, other figures entangled in the investigation, including Trump himself, have been scrambling to escalate attacks and allegations against prosecutors who have spent weeks working quietly behind the scenes. “Scrambling”. And those “quietly working” prosecutors, solemnly building their case. This whole sentence reads like a Trump-Russia proponent’s rendition that Scared Donny is afraid of the inevitable hammer of justice coming to lay him down flat by dutiful truth-seekers. This is the Associated Press? Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5123 "2018-11-28T00:48:50Z")
This is corroborated by the Royal Twitterfeed. It is not the twitterfeed of a man with nothing to hide. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5124 "2018-11-28T00:51:35Z")
It’s true, but it’s still not the sort of phrasing that a news organization should be using. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=255) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=257)