# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 259
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5165 "2018-11-30T19:44:18Z")
Narrator: Bob is still with us. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5166 "2018-11-30T19:44:25Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I may get skewered for this, but here goes: Unless Trump or one of Trump’s associates was involved in the hacking conspiracy (I.e., their actions in some way furthered the scheme to hack and disseminate the emails), they’re not complicit in the conspiracy. > > Now hear me out. It would be scummy of them to have heard that emails have been hacked and might be released soon on Hillary Clinton, and instead of telling authorities they just gloat on Twitter that they heard about something, but I’m not sure it’s a crime. It’s not a crime to hear about something that you’re not involved in. > > Now, assuming that’s the case, can they be charged with failure to report the crime? Is that a crime? I have no idea. But in the above scenario, they wouldn’t be implicated in the criminal conspiracy itself. > > In your scenario, if the information is simply damaging info on a rival candidate from a foreign national, as I’ve said before, I don’t think it’s a crime to receive it or share it. Unless the information was illegally obtained (e.g., through hacking a server). The president, and others in his organization, lied about not having any business dealings with a hostile power during the campaign. The hostile power knew that he and they had lied. He put himself in a compromised position with the dealings and the lies and he should never have been elected while in such a personally leveraged state. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5167 "2018-11-30T20:30:49Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If there is a conspiracy to murder Bob, and you are aware of the conspiracy to murder Bob, and the person who wants to murder Bob says, “I want to sell you my car, so I have the money to buy a gun so that I can shoot Bob”, and you buy his car with the understanding of what he intends to do with the money, then you can be charged as part of the conspiracy. > > 1. Knowledge > 2. Participation > > You do not have to be a part of the criminal part, you just have to be complicit in the overall scheme. Are you suggesting that the Moscow project financing was a necessary component of the DNC hack, and that without this real estate deal the DNC hack wouldn’t have gotten off the ground? And therefore Trump and Co. are complicit? I’m obviously trying my best to divine a lot from Bob here, but if this is correct, I’m hard pressed to believe that these two unrelated things could possibly be linked in a criminal way. > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The president, and others in his organization, lied about not having any business dealings with a hostile power during the campaign. The hostile power knew that he and they had lied. He put himself in a compromised position with the dealings and the lies and he should never have been elected while in such a personally leveraged state. Was it criminal? The project was unseemly and wildly inappropriate, but was it also criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5168 "2018-11-30T20:41:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Sorry, I think usually I do. Not sure why I didn’t yesterday. Oh, I think we were all a bit giddy; it was quite an eventful Thursday. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5169 "2018-11-30T20:44:41Z")
I just thought of something: during the timeline of the Moscow project, all that was known about the DNC hack was that WikiLeaks was involved, not Russian operatives. That came later. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5170 "2018-11-30T20:53:31Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Are you suggesting that the Moscow project financing was a necessary component of the DNC hack, and that without this real estate deal the DNC hack wouldn’t have gotten off the ground? And therefore Trump and Co. are complicit? Bob’s case is, currently, more relevant to the Veselnitskaya meeting, but let’s ignore the hacked materials matter. During the election, Trump was strangely “pro-Russia”. He pushed a story line of great cooperation between the two countries. Now, if that was his own view of the world, all fine. That’s just his politics. But let’s say that he was acting to influence American politics in a pro-Russia manner, including taking actions like giving pro-Russia speeches at political events, lobbying for changes to the Republican party platform, etc. in trade for a set of building contracts in Moscow. It is not his personal belief about the direction the country should go, he’s just signed on with Russia’s political message, in order to swing a deal. In this case, Trump is acting as an unregistered foreign agent. And, if he does that while **knowledgeable** that this is all part of a greater Russian operation to swing the election away from Clinton and to Trump, then cooperating in that effort, in trade for building contracts should he lose and the Presidency should he win, makes his political lobbying work become **participation** in the Russian conspiracy. 1. Knowledge 2. Participation ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5171 "2018-11-30T21:02:57Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Jeff Toobin says he finally thinks Trump may not finish his term. > > Also Paul Begala says Trump won’t be impeached unless the GOP asks the Dems for impeachment. I still think most of DC, and most of us, are withholding judgment until Mueller reports out. People’s views are going to crystallize rapidly after that. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5172 "2018-11-30T21:06:06Z")
Interesting angle on foreign agency, Sage Rat. Reasonable. But as far as the knowledge and participation point, I added later that all they would have known at the time was Assange and WikiLeaks, not Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5173 "2018-11-30T21:17:39Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Interesting angle on foreign agency, Sage Rat. Reasonable. > > But as far as the knowledge and participation point, I added later that all they would have known at the time was Assange and WikiLeaks, not Russia. Mueller would need to prove that they had knowledge of Russia’s intents in at least some part, yes. Though there’s another way of looking at it, which would be that Trump is the one leading the conspiracy, where he expects Russia to commit illegal acts in his favor, if he offers to cozy up to them, and maybe makes moves to say, “Hey guys, there’s this cool website called WikiLeaks. _hint hint nudge nudge_ By the way, would Putin like his own penthouse suite in this new building I’m thinking of? Oh, and look, the Republican party isn’t set against you anymore! Who got that done, I wonder?” ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5174 "2018-11-30T21:30:30Z")
Yeah a quid pro quo would need to be proven in some way, and I think that would be hard to do. I was just reminded though of Papadopoulos’ meeting with Mifsud that took place in late April, and during that time he was told of thousands of emails the Russians had, and late April would fall within the Moscow project timeline, so it might be impossible for Trump and Co. to claim they had no knowledge of Russia’s involvement. Unless they go with coffee boy, round 2. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5175 "2018-11-30T21:38:24Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Yeah a quid pro quo would need to be proven in some way, and I think that would be hard to do. Mueller: Was there any connection between the Moscow Tower project and the political campaign? Cohen: Yes, Trump and I used it and other means to try to entice the Russian government to commit illegal acts in our favor. Mueller: Are you willing to say that on the stand? Cohen: Yes. Mueller: Do you have any materials to support your statement? Cohen: Yes, I have recordings from several of our meetings, where we discuss the topic. Mueller: May I offer you a back rub? So, potentially quite easy. But I’m assuming that it hasn’t been quite that easy given that Trump hasn’t been charged yet. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5176 "2018-11-30T21:53:09Z")
ETA: ^ This post cracked me up! > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Jeff Toobin says he finally thinks Trump may not finish his term. > > Also Paul Begala says Trump won’t be impeached unless the GOP asks the Dems for impeachment. > > [CNN's Jeffrey Toobin says that for the first time, he thinks 'Trump might not finish his term in office' | The Week](https://theweek.com/speedreads/810144/cnns-jeffrey-toobin-says-that-first-time-thinks-trump-might-not-finish-term-office) When I first heard that the the Dems had no plan to impeach Trump, I was confused, but as I thought about it, it made sense. And this news confirms my thinking: the Dems do not want to start a war over this; they want the GOP to come to their senses. Otherwise, they’ll just block everything they can for two years and THEN, when Trump is no longer POTUS, they’ll drop the fucking judicial hammer. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5177 "2018-11-30T22:07:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Narrator: Bob is still with us. Now you’re making me want to reread the Bobiverse books. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5178 "2018-11-30T22:16:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ETA: ^ This post cracked me up! > > When I first heard that the the Dems had no plan to impeach Trump, I was confused, but as I thought about it, it made sense. And this news confirms my thinking: the Dems do not want to start a war over this; they want the GOP to come to their senses. Otherwise, they’ll just block everything they can for two years and THEN, when Trump is no longer POTUS, they’ll drop the fucking judicial hammer. Well and you can’t impeach without proof. Worryingly, the Republican senators in the states that flipped during the last election are ones who are pretty favorable to Trump despite, presumably, coming from fairly moderate states. The man did a good job of targeting. Possibly one of the few smart things he has done in office. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5179 "2018-12-02T00:05:02Z")
Here is Cohen’s lawyers’ request for leniency: > **[Gov-Uscourts-Nysd-505539-8-0.pdf](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5360474/Gov-Uscourts-Nysd-505539-8-0.pdf)** > > 525.60 KB I found this part interesting: “the significance of his cooperation with the SCO falls outside of the ordinary framework in which courts routinely assess cooperation in criminal cases. […] He could have fought the government and continued to hold to the party line, positioning himself perhaps for a pardon or clemency, but, instead – for himself, his family, and his country – he took personal responsibility for his own wrongdoing and contributed, and is prepared to continue to contribute, to an investigation that he views as thoroughly legitimate and vital.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5180 "2018-12-02T16:29:42Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Also Paul Begala says Trump won’t be impeached unless the GOP asks the Dems for impeachment. So, they’d say something like, “You’ve got to save us from ourselves?” Not gonna happen; it would be political suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5181 "2018-12-02T17:11:08Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > So, they’d say something like, “You’ve got to save us from ourselves?” Not gonna happen; it would be political suicide. I think the strategy is more to offer the GOP an escape from where they’re headed as a party, one that provides cover of patriotism and following the rule of law so that in the future they can claim at least some virtue and honor from the action. Kind of like what Michael Cohen is trying to do for himself, but the Dems are the ones obviously leaving the door open here. The GOP wouldn’t really have to admit their error(s); they’d just have to initiate and help things get back on track. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5182 "2018-12-02T17:41:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I think the strategy is more to offer the GOP an escape from where they’re headed as a party, one that provides cover of patriotism and following the rule of law so that in the future they can claim at least some virtue and honor from the action. Kind of like what Michael Cohen is trying to do for himself, but the Dems are the ones obviously leaving the door open here. The GOP wouldn’t really have to admit their error(s); they’d just have to initiate and help things get back on track. Why would the Dems’ strategy be to give the GOP any sort of assistance? I pray the Dem leadership is not stupid enough say 'How high?" when/if the GOP eventually says, “OK, let’s jump.” This shitbird is the GOP’s to own until 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5183 "2018-12-02T17:47:12Z")
many senators would prefer Pence over Trump. But what they really prefer is keeping their jobs. If they vote to remove Trump it’s pretty much a lock they would get a Trumper primary opponent next time they run which could be as early as 2020 for some of them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5184 "2018-12-02T18:45:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Why would the Dems’ strategy be to give the GOP any sort of assistance? Because drawing a line in the sand and starting a war for the country would be a spectacularly bad move. And that’s what would happen if the Dems tried to start impeachment proceedings: the GOP would circle the wagons and defend Trump. Can’t have it happen. The GOP has to show that they want to preserve this democratic republic too. That’s politics. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I pray the Dem leadership is not stupid enough say 'How high?" when/if the GOP eventually says, “OK, let’s jump.” This shitbird is the GOP’s to own until 2020. Oh, I think that if the GOP says “OK, let’s jump” they’ll find themselves _at best_ in the backseat of a tandem parachute, not in one that they control. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=258) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=260)