# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 269
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5365 "2018-12-19T00:51:54Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Judgement from the case of the mystery subpoena: > > [https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/2018/395974126-12-18-18-DC-Circuit-Grand-Jury-Subpoena.pdf](https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/2018/395974126-12-18-18-DC-Circuit-Grand-Jury-Subpoena.pdf) > > Apparently it was against a company that is controlled by a foreign country - so a nationalized business of some form. The company claimed sovereign immunity and the court has decided against them. > > Gazprom? Some Saudi company? Hard to say. [Here’s a list of Russian state-owned enterprises,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_Russia) for those who are playing along. My bet is on one of the banks. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5366 "2018-12-19T01:04:10Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [Here’s a list of Russian state-owned enterprises,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_Russia) for those who are playing along. > My bet is on one of the banks. Granted, my expectation is that (if it is Russia) they’ll simply thumb their nose at the court and say, “Come get it.” Given that Russia is already under sanctions, I don’t know what the court could do to force the issue. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5367 "2018-12-19T02:45:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Granted, my expectation is that (if it is Russia) they’ll simply thumb their nose at the court and say, “Come get it.” > > Given that Russia is already under sanctions, I don’t know what the court could do to force the issue. Assuming it’s Russia, of course… I’m not certain of the reach of the sanctions, or even if they’re being enforced, yet. And IANAL, to say what could or could not be done. Lemme see. If the sanctions don’t include current operation of the offending entity within the US (buggered if I know), then severing all commercial relationships? Confiscation of all assets held by the offendor within the US? Not just cash, but property and so forth? Arrest warrants for the heads of the offending entity may seem pointless, but it’d put a crimp in their travel plans, and is a definite slap in the face at least. I imagine a person more familiar with the laws and regs of international finance and…law, could come up with a plethora of crippling and/or simply annoying acts, if they’re feeling motivated enough. Heck, a complete embargo of the Russian (or whoever) economy is not beyond the realms of possibility. For that matter, it may not be Russian-owned, though that’s my suspicion. Trump’s corruption spreads far and wide, in many disparate areas, with the only commonality being that Trump and/or his organization is involved. Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia…wouldn’t surprise me if he’s somehow getting paid off by North Korea, for heaven’s sake! It all kind of depends on who it is, and how far the US government is willing to go. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5368 "2018-12-19T16:17:31Z")
Judgements against foreign businesses, in themselves, are going to be relatively toothless… but the important part is in the connections. Once it’s established that what a company was doing was illegal, if you can establish that an American individual (like, say, Individual 1) was helping them to do it, then you’ve also got that American individual guilty of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5369 "2018-12-19T16:56:23Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Flynn had a choice to either stick with the defense’s sentencing memo story about being duped and perjuring himself or telling the truth and contradicting the sentencing memo. Ah, but did they tell him that, lying in court about whether or not he knew it was a crime to lie to the FBI, was a crime? See, obvious entrapment, witch hunt! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5370 "2018-12-19T18:18:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Judgements against foreign businesses, in themselves, are going to be relatively toothless… but the important part is in the connections. Once it’s established that what a company was doing was illegal, if you can establish that an American individual (like, say, Individual 1) was helping them to do it, then you’ve also got that American individual guilty of a crime. I assume that they need the information from the business in order to establish the connection to Individual 1. Specifically, based on some Internet sleuthing, I think that the company is Aramco and that they gave Trump a slice of the ownership back in May of 2017. But you would need their records to confirm it. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5371 "2018-12-19T20:16:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I assume that they need the information from the business in order to establish the connection to Individual 1. > > Specifically, based on some Internet sleuthing, I think that the company is Aramco and that they gave Trump a slice of the ownership back in May of 2017. But you would need their records to confirm it. Does this tie into George Papa telling his old girlfriend he was “Set for life”? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5372 "2018-12-19T21:33:35Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Does this tie into George Papa telling his old girlfriend he was “Set for life”? I don’t think so. I don’t think Papadopoulos was ever involved in the Saudi Arabia stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5373 "2018-12-19T21:44:58Z")
Cambridge Analytica. Headquartered in London. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5374 "2018-12-19T22:19:08Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Cambridge Analytica. Headquartered in London. Cambridge Analytica is not owned by a country. > [@](#): > > The Grand Jury seeks information from a corporation (“the Corporation”) owned by Country A. [link](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000167-c36a-df35-adef-df6f4e7c0001) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5375 "2018-12-19T22:32:12Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Cambridge Analytica is not owned by a country. > > [link](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000167-c36a-df35-adef-df6f4e7c0001) Good point. 🙂 'Twas just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5376 "2018-12-19T22:40:22Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I assume that they need the information from the business in order to establish the connection to Individual 1. > > Specifically, based on some Internet sleuthing, I think that **the company is Aramco and that they gave Trump a slice of the ownership back in May of 2017.** But you would need their records to confirm it. Wait, what? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5377 "2018-12-20T00:25:26Z")
To get this thread a bit back on the Russian track… [https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-12-19/trump-ready-to-remove-sanctions-on-deripaska-s-rusal-in-30-days](https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-12-19/trump-ready-to-remove-sanctions-on-deripaska-s-rusal-in-30-days) > [@](#): > > The Trump administration is ready to remove sanctions on Russian billionaireOleg Deripaska’s aluminum company,United Co. Rusal, after reaching an agreement to significantly reduce his ownership stake. > > Deripaska will remain under U.S. sanctions and his property will remain blocked, but Treasury intends to remove financial restrictions on Rusal,En+ Group Plcand JSC EuroSibEnergo. The move will take effect in 30 days unless Congress blocks the action, the Treasury Department said in a statement Wednesday. I love this little piece of bullshit… > [@](#): > > The Treasury secretary highlighted that Deripaska, not the companies, was the intended target of U.S. sanctions imposed in April on associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin over Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5378 "2018-12-20T00:37:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Wait, what? [https://www.arabianbusiness.com/aramco-planning-at-least-10-energy-deals-during-trump-visit-674294.html](https://www.arabianbusiness.com/aramco-planning-at-least-10-energy-deals-during-trump-visit-674294.html) Coincidentally, he was in town at the same time as Aramco was signing papers with various entities, in an effort to sell of 5% of the company. Later in November of 2017: [https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-updates-trump-tweets-saudi-aramco-nyse-htmlstory.html](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-updates-trump-tweets-saudi-aramco-nyse-htmlstory.html) Obviously, I have no proof of this. It is merely innuendo. But I would bet a good $50 on it if I thought we had a way of knowing the answer. (Regrettably, the odds are decent that we’ll never be able to know.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5379 "2018-12-20T00:39:16Z")
Lots of gifts for Russia today. Easing of Deripaska’s sanctions, withdrawal of troops from Syria and an indication that Trump wants another Putin face-to-face meeting soon. Must be time to receive new orders. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5380 "2018-12-20T01:03:15Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Lots of gifts for Russia today. Easing of Deripaska’s sanctions, withdrawal of troops from Syria and an indication that Trump wants another Putin face-to-face meeting soon. > > Must be time to receive new orders. Closing out the accounts before Trump is mauled by the Democratic House. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5381 "2018-12-20T01:35:45Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Cambridge Analytica is not owned by a country. > > [link](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000167-c36a-df35-adef-df6f4e7c0001) Ok, here’s a better guess, and it’s Russian, so suitable for the thread. Sberbank, 60% owned by the Russian government. It’s the bank that was meant to finance the Moscow Tower deal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5382 "2018-12-20T06:13:38Z")
Professor Sberbank, in the library, with the polonium. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5383 "2018-12-20T06:41:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Professor Sberbank, in the library, with the polonium. There you are, always come to brighten my day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5384 "2018-12-21T14:17:23Z")
“Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During 2016 Campaign” > **[Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/russian-agents-sought-us-treasury-records-on-clinton-backers)** > > Whistleblowers said the Americans were exchanging messages with unsecure Gmail accounts set up by their Russian counterparts as the US election heated up. > [@](#): > > The extraordinary unofficial line of communication arose in the final year of the Obama administration — in the midst of what multiple US intelligence agencies have said was a secret campaign by the Kremlin to interfere in the US election. Russian agents ostensibly trying to track ISIS instead pressed their American counterparts for private financial documents on at least two dozen dissidents, academics, private investigators, and American citizens. > > Most startlingly, Russia requested sensitive documents on Dirk, Edward, and Daniel Ziff, billionaire investors who had run afoul of the Kremlin. That request was made weeks before a Russian lawyer showed up at Trump Tower offering top campaign aides “dirt” on Hillary Clinton — including her supposed connection to the Ziff brothers. Russians were communicating with Americans through private Gmail and Hotmail accounts rather than official secure channels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=268) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=270)