# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/523 "2017-07-09T21:02:44Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > But doesn’t forgetting about the meeting actually demonstrate how innocent it was? Haha! No. > [@snoe](#): > > I mean, if they’d been up to something, somebody would have remembered it and reported it. Stands to reason. If you can give me a list of people who find that argument convincing, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell them. But the whole _‘meeting about adoption forced on us by a DEMOCRAT who then forced us to refrain from reporting it!!!1!!!’_ saga does have, behind it, a fascinating investigation into money laundering and other Russian-mafia doings: > [@](#): > > …the Magnitsky Affair, a contentious story of scandal, cover-ups and smear campaigns that dates back more than a decade. Over the years, the Kremlin has used every tool it can, including the fate of Russian orphans who might be adopted by Americans, as it tries to thwart calls for justice from the U.S. Congress and the administration. > > … Pavlov, described by American officials as the lawyer for a notorious Russian mafia organization, was expected to face tough questioning about his role in what’s alleged to be a far-reaching fraud and money laundering operation… > Sergei Magnitsky was a tax attorney who discovered and exposed the alleged fraud, only to find himself arrested and defamed by the Putin government before dying in jail in 2009 under suspicious circumstances. Washington responded with the passage of a landmark U.S. human rights law named after the principal victim and designed to sanction and blacklist his assailants. > > …Finally, Natalia Veselnitskaya… was shown to be involved in a Kremlin lobbying effort to kill the next iteration of the Magnitsky Act, the 2012 law that aims to deny visa entry to any Russian officials identified as part of the Klyuev Group or its accomplices, and to freeze whatever assets they may have in the United States. > She also heads up a newly-registered Delaware NGO known euphemistically as the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation. Its objective seems to be cancelling the Magnitsky Act as part of a quid pro quo arrangement for the Kremlin’s cancellation of a controversial and retaliatory ban on American adoption of Russian orphans. [U.S. Prosecutors Are Out to Crack Russia’s Crooked Money Machine](http://www.thedailybeast.com/us-prosecutors-are-out-to-crack-russias-crooked-money-machine) The woman mentioned in the third paragraph, Natalia Veselnitskaya, is the one that Don Jr., Manafort, and Kushner met with. (The entire article is long but worth a read.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/524 "2017-07-09T21:03:24Z")
Er… [Trump’s son met with Russian lawyer after being promised damaging information on Clinton](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?referer=https://t.co/ooHdZABEHq?amp=1) > [@](#): > > President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign, according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it. > > The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner only recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content, in confidential government documents described to The New York Times. > > … > > the episode at Trump Tower is the first such confirmed private meeting involving members of his inner circle during the campaign — as well as the first one known to have included his eldest son. It came at an inflection point in the campaign, when Donald Trump Jr., who served as an adviser and a surrogate, was ascendant and Mr. Manafort was consolidating power. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/525 "2017-07-09T21:07:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Er… > > [Trump’s son met with Russian lawyer after being promised damaging information on Clinton](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?referer=https://t.co/ooHdZABEHq?amp=1) Trump Jr’s excuse is basically “no no no, we weren’t there to discuss removing sanctions, we were trying to collude, but we got duped.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/526 "2017-07-09T21:08:05Z")
Oh, Mr. Mueller… ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/527 "2017-07-09T21:25:13Z")
It was actually _Republican_ anti-Trumpers that hired Fusion-GPS to do oppo-research against Trump _before he won the nomination_. After he was their guy they cancelled the Trump dirt-digging contract, but that account at Fusion GPS was then picked up by Democrats and contracted out to Steele’s firm for intel, which was eventually continued by him pro-bono. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/528 "2017-07-09T21:28:29Z")
> [@](#): > > … Pavlov, described by American officials as the lawyer for a notorious Russian mafia organization… The name rings a bell. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/529 "2017-07-09T21:44:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The name rings a bell. I shall not dignify that stimulus with a response. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/530 "2017-07-09T21:48:16Z")
Gotta sic’ the dogs on **'luci** for that shit. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/531 "2017-07-09T21:50:40Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > It was actually _Republican_ anti-Trumpers that hired Fusion-GPS to do oppo-research against Trump _before he won the nomination_. After he was their guy they cancelled the Trump dirt-digging contract, but that account at Fusion GPS was then picked up by Democrats and contracted out to Steele’s firm for intel, which was eventually continued by him pro-bono. Just because 2016 was “FUCK YOU RATIONALITY” and then 2017 then replied, “Wait, hold my beer…” Is this a joke? Or real? Because, sometimes, it’s fuckin’ hard to tell nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/532 "2017-07-09T21:57:29Z")
Why would anyone be needed to do “oppo research” on the Orange Hindenburg? Is there something _hidden_? Something worse than the shit that lies thick upon the ground? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/533 "2017-07-09T22:16:10Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Trump Jr’s excuse is basically “no no no, we weren’t there to discuss removing sanctions, we were trying to collude, but we got duped.” It really is incredible, that statement from Junior. You can read it here: > some highlights: \*\* “I was asked to have a meeting by an acquaintance I knew from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant with an individual who I was told might have information helpful to the campaign.”\*\* That Miss Universe pagent is the one held in Moscow. So this is Junior, right in the opening sentence, admitting that he was asked to take a meeting by an acquaintance from Moscow with a woman who could help the Trump campaign. \*\* I was not told her name prior to the meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to attend, but told them nothing of the substance. We had a meeting in June 2016. \*\* So he agreed to meet with a stranger, on the request of an acquaintance from Moscow, without bothering to ask who, and just happened to invite his brother-in-law and Donald’s campaign manager to drop by, who both showed up, I guess because no one has any actual work to do. **After pleasantries were exchanged, the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information. She then changed subjects and began discussing the adoption of Russian children and mentioned the Magnitsky Act. It ecame clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.** This, again, is Junior admitting that he took this meeting on the advice of his friend from Moscow because he believed that he would be getting useful information to use against Clinton. So Junior’s defense here is, “we tried to collude with some Russians against Hillary but they didn’t come across with the goods.” Just astonishing. Incidentally - the child adoption thing and the Magnitsky act? Here’s a brief rundown > **[Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner met with Russian lawyer during 2016...](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-jr-jared-kushner-met-russian-lawyer/story?id=48525401&cid=social_twitter_abcn)** > > A source told ABC News that the campaign was not discussed. > [@ABC News](#): > > [Natalia] Veselnitskaya is best known for her work against the Magnitsky Act, a 2012 bill that blocks certain Russian officials’ entrance to the U.S. and their use of the U.S. banking system. > > The Magnitsky Act was largely a response to the death of Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky in a Moscow prison in 2009. Magnitsky was killed by Russian police after he uncovered a huge tax fraud scheme linked to the top levels of the Russian state. The act serves as a blacklist that targets Russian officials involved in the murder and its cover-up. > > After the act was passed, Russia stopped allowing Americans to adopt Russian children. So when the Trump clan mentions the children’s adoptions, they’re actually talking about Russian efforts to repeal the Magnitsky act. The adoption problem was caused by their pal Vlad’s retaliation against the US for instituting the Magnitsky Act. The NYT has more about the MAgnitsky Act and the Russian money problems it’s caused. > **[Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?referer=https:%2F%2Ft.co%2FooHdZABEHq?amp=1)** > > Donald Trump Jr. is said to have arranged the meeting with the Kremlin-linked lawyer during the campaign after he was told he would be provided with details about Hillary Clinton. > [@NYT article about Junior and the various elements of the backstory here](#): > > Ms. Veselnitskaya is a formidable operator with a history of pushing the Kremlin’s agenda. Most notable is her campaign against the Magnitsky Act, which provoked a Cold War-style, tit-for-tat dispute with the Kremlin when President Barack Obama signed it into law in 2012. > > Under the law, about 44 Russian citizens have been put on a list that allows the United States to seize their American assets and deny them visas. The United States asserts that many of them are connected to the fraud exposed by Mr. Magnitsky, who after being jailed for more than a year was found dead in his cell. A Russian human rights panel found that he had been assaulted. To critics of Mr. Putin, Mr. Magnitsky, in death, became a symbol of corruption and brutality in the Russian state. > > An infuriated Mr. Putin has called the law an “outrageous act,” and, in addition to banning American adoptions, he compiled what became known as an “anti-Magnitsky” blacklist of United States citizens. > > Among those blacklisted was Preet Bharara, then the United States attorney in Manhattan, who led notable convictions of Russian arms and drug dealers. Mr. Bharara was abruptly fired in March, after previously being asked to stay on by President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/534 "2017-07-09T22:28:17Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > \*\* I was not told her name prior to the meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to > attend, but told them nothing of the substance. We had a meeting in June 2016. \*\* > > So he agreed to meet with a stranger, on the request of an acquaintance from Moscow, without bothering to ask who, and just happened to invite his brother-in-law and Donald’s campaign manager to drop by, who both showed up, I guess because no one has any actual work to do. > > **After pleasantries were exchanged, the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and > supporting Ms. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information. She then changed subjects and began discussing the adoption of Russian children and mentioned the Magnitsky Act. It ecame clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.** > > This, again, is Junior admitting that he took this meeting on the advice of his friend from Moscow because he believed that he would be getting useful information to use against Clinton. > > So Junior’s defense here is, “we tried to collude with some Russians against Hillary but they didn’t come across with the goods.” Just astonishing. I don’t understand your “astonishment”. Can you tell me, with a straight face, that if Clinton’s campaign officials were told that someone “had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Republican National Committee and supporting Donald Trump” these Clinton’s campaign officials would NOT run, not walk, to meet that person? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/535 "2017-07-09T22:30:18Z")
Just going to take a moment to say that the more I hear about this Preet Bharara guy, the better I like him. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/536 "2017-07-09T22:35:02Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I don’t understand your “astonishment”. Can you tell me, with a straight face, that if Clinton’s campaign officials were told that someone “had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Republican National Committee and supporting Donald Trump” these Clinton’s campaign officials would NOT run, not walk, to meet that person? what fucking difference does it make? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/537 "2017-07-09T22:36:58Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Trump Jr’s excuse is basically “no no no, we weren’t there to discuss removing sanctions, we were trying to collude, but we got duped.” I’m confused. I thought Eric was the dumb one? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/538 "2017-07-09T22:37:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > what fucking difference does it make? Can you elaborate, what exactly is wrong with Trump campaign officials meeting with someone who claims that she “has information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”? It would be a dereliction of duty NOT to meet with such a person. And if that information actually checked out, it would be a dereliction of duty NOT to publish it. Wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/539 "2017-07-09T22:43:27Z")
Donald Trump Jr is the guy who goes to the cops to complain that he was robbed during a drug deal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/540 "2017-07-09T22:48:50Z")
This sure looks bad, but… The lawyer they met is described as “Kremlin-connected”. That sounds a bit vague. Does that make her a government official? Would Don Jr be required to report the meeting with her? There is the separate issue of what the meeting was about, but is there actually a problem that DJ didn’t report the meeting? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/541 "2017-07-09T22:55:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This sure looks bad, but… The lawyer they met is described as “Kremlin-connected”. That sounds a bit vague. Does that make her a government official? Would Don Jr be required to report the meeting with her? > > There is the separate issue of what the meeting was about, but is there actually a problem that DJ didn’t report the meeting? Read up on Natalia Veselnitskaya. She was a government prosecutor and has been the point person for years regarding getting some sanctions that Putin particularly hates lifted (the Magnitsky Act). This act is linked to the adoption excuse the Trump people are using because that was Putin’s retaliatiion for the act. She is very, very Kremlin connected. It’s not an accident that this is yet another meeting that wasn’t reported. > [@Okrahoma](#): > > Can you elaborate, what exactly is wrong with Trump campaign officials meeting with someone who claims that she “has information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”? > > It would be a dereliction of duty NOT to meet with such a person. And if that information actually checked out, it would be a dereliction of duty NOT to publish it. > > Wouldn’t you say? No. No I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/542 "2017-07-09T23:01:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This sure looks bad, but… The lawyer they met is described as “Kremlin-connected”. That sounds a bit vague. Does that make her a government official? Would Don Jr be required to report the meeting with her? > > There is the separate issue of what the meeting was about, but is there actually a problem that DJ didn’t report the meeting? Don JR wouldn’t b/c he was and still is a private citizen. Jared Kushner would for his security clearance, and my understanding is that he waited until just a few days ago. The Russian lawyer, I believe, is Putin’s point person for attacking the Magnitsky Act, a US law that blacklists Russian human rights abusers that Putin is supposedly extremely pissed about. Ninja’d in part by Fiveyearlurker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=28)