# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 274
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5465 "2019-01-14T19:24:20Z")
[A good CNN article out now](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/politics/trump-russia-mueller/index.html) that asks the question - WHY did Trump take such pains to ensure that nobody, including his own senior staff knew anything about what he and Putin spoke about? > [@](#): > > If Trump really didn’t do ANYTHING wrong in relation to Russia, the dumbest thing he could possibly do is what he did – actively work to scotch the official record of any evidence of what he and Putin have talked about over the past two years. It’s literally the most guilty looking thing he could do. > Which brings me, again, to this: If he did absolutely nothing wrong and this whole Russia investigation is a total hoax, why did Trump try to keep the contents of his meetings quiet? Why would he do that? > To me, that’s the question the press has to ask and ask and ask. Because the answer that seems obvious is one that would deeply endanger Trump’s presidency. And if he is truly innocent of any and all allegations, then why lead people to believe you might not be? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5466 "2019-01-14T19:45:45Z")
> [@](#): > > …And if he is truly innocent of any and all allegations, then why lead people to believe you might not be? Maybe. Possible. Set out a false trail of evidence, hope somebody goes haring after it, baying like hounds, then reveal that its all a hoax. 'Course, you don’t tell them who’s hoax it _was_, because that would be dumb. Of course, I’m not much like Trump, not an especially stable genius, just ordinary, garden-variety. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5467 "2019-01-14T20:19:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Maybe. Possible. Set out a false trail of evidence, hope somebody goes haring after it, baying like hounds, then reveal that its all a hoax. 'Course, you don’t tell them who’s hoax it _was_, because that would be dumb. > > Of course, I’m not much like Trump, not an especially stable genius, just ordinary, garden-variety. More likely explanation is that Trump habitually operates like a mob boss, and this is just how he rolls. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5468 "2019-01-15T11:24:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [A good CNN article out now](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/politics/trump-russia-mueller/index.html) that asks the question - WHY did Trump take such pains to ensure that nobody, including his own senior staff knew anything about what he and Putin spoke about? > > > [@](#): > > > > … To me, that’s the question the press has to ask and ask and ask. Because the answer that seems obvious is one that would deeply endanger Trump’s presidency. And if he is truly innocent of any and all allegations, then why lead people to believe you might not be? Although I regard Trump as a criminal and a traitor, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his insistence on keeping his Putin chats secret. It’s possible that these chats were so banal, so utterly devoid of any intelligence, that exposing them would be too humiliating. True, all of Trump’s public utterances and tweets are banal and devoid of intelligence, but he pretends that that is his fake persona, that he’s play-acting for the “uneducated people who are his favorite people.” But this excuse wouldn’t apply in a one-on-one with Putin. To reveal these chats would reveal the “Emperor” as not only wearing no clothes, but unable even to put on his diapers without help. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5469 "2019-01-15T15:33:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Although I regard Trump as a criminal and a traitor, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his insistence on keeping his Putin chats secret. > > It’s possible that these chats were so banal, so utterly devoid of any intelligence, that exposing them would be too humiliating. > > True, all of Trump’s public utterances and tweets are banal and devoid of intelligence, but he pretends that that is his fake persona, that he’s play-acting for the “uneducated people who are his favorite people.” But this excuse wouldn’t apply in a one-on-one with Putin. To reveal these chats would reveal the “Emperor” as not only wearing no clothes, but unable even to put on his diapers without help. Has Trump also kept similar chats with other heads of state out of all official records? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5470 "2019-01-15T15:50:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Although I regard Trump as a criminal and a traitor, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his insistence on keeping his Putin chats secret. > > It’s possible that these chats were so banal, so utterly devoid of any intelligence, that exposing them would be too humiliating. > > True, all of Trump’s public utterances and tweets are banal and devoid of intelligence, but he pretends that that is his fake persona, that he’s play-acting for the “uneducated people who are his favorite people.” But this excuse wouldn’t apply in a one-on-one with Putin. To reveal these chats would reveal the “Emperor” as not only wearing no clothes, but unable even to put on his diapers without help. The man is way, way to stupid to realize that. There is exactly zero introspection, or self realization. He is not capable of seeing his own faults. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5471 "2019-01-15T16:07:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Although I regard Trump as a criminal and a traitor, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his insistence on keeping his Putin chats secret. > > It’s possible that these chats were so banal, so utterly devoid of any intelligence, that exposing them would be too humiliating. > > True, all of Trump’s public utterances and tweets are banal and devoid of intelligence, but he pretends that that is his fake persona, that he’s play-acting for the “uneducated people who are his favorite people.” But this excuse wouldn’t apply in a one-on-one with Putin. To reveal these chats would reveal the “Emperor” as not only wearing no clothes, but unable even to put on his diapers without help. I’m going to assume you made a serious statement here and I’m not being whooshed. No. The ramifications of secret chats are much more damaging and far-reaching, no matter his reasons for keeping them secret. For a start, it enables Putin to claim anything he likes about what was said and there is no way for Trump or anyone else to refute those assertions. Also, whatever is said in those chats becomes binding on future presidents and other members of government. Continuity and accountability are badly broken when only Trump knows what was said. There is never, ever a good reason for his discussions with an adversarial head of government to be completely secret. Classified and unavailable to the public, perhaps. But not secret. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5472 "2019-01-15T16:52:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > No. The ramifications of secret chats are much more damaging and far-reaching, no matter his reasons for keeping them secret. Aren’t conversations between heads of state usually secret? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5473 "2019-01-15T17:01:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Aren’t conversations between heads of state usually secret? They aren’t made public but they are documented and preserved. Unless one of them is under the control of the other. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5474 "2019-01-15T17:01:53Z")
Performance reviews are strictly confidential. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5475 "2019-01-15T17:02:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > \ > > There is never, ever a good reason for his discussions with an adversarial head of government to be completely secret. **Classified and unavailable to the public, perhaps. But not secret.** > [@Quartz](#): > > Aren’t conversations between heads of state usually secret? It’s helpful if you read the whole post. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5476 "2019-01-15T17:05:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It’s helpful if you read the whole post. I had read it, thank you, and chose my word precisely. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5477 "2019-01-15T17:12:57Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Aren’t conversations between heads of state usually secret? No. Secret from the public, sure. Secret from the rest of the Administration? No. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5478 "2019-01-15T17:23:43Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I had read it, thank you, and chose my word precisely. Then consider choosing your argument carefully next time as well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5479 "2019-01-15T18:02:51Z")
Are the meeting transcripts subject to the Presidential Records Act? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5480 "2019-01-15T20:49:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The man is way, way to stupid to realize that. There is exactly zero introspection, or self realization. He is not capable of seeing his own faults. Faults? What faults? He’s the most faultless person there ever was! The smartest too; knows more about everything than all the so-called experts. Right? Just ask him! ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5481 "2019-01-15T21:43:11Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Are the meeting transcripts subject to the Presidential Records Act? That was my first thought as well. Some googling tells me that there are plenty of people who think likewise, but I couldn’t find anything very authoritative. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5482 "2019-01-16T01:24:14Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Are the meeting transcripts subject to the Presidential Records Act? What meeting transcripts? The Kremlin may have transcripts of the meetings—in fact they almost certainly do. Those would not be subject to any US legislation, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5483 "2019-01-16T02:44:03Z")
Mueller’s full accounting of Manafort’s lies, after the cooperation deal was signed: > **[Document: Special Counsel Files Partially Redacted Memo Describing False...](https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-special-counsel-files-partially-redacted-memo-describing-false-statements-manafort-during)** > > On Tuesday, the Special Counsel’s Office filed the following memorandum in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia describing false statements made by Paul Manafort after Manafort entered a cooperation agreement with the special... Still reading through. I read the first part about the $125,000 payment, slotting in the words “Kilimnik” and “Gates” for the shorter and longer redactions, but then section 2 starts with the overt heading “Konstantin Kilimnik’s Role in the Witness Tampering Conspiracy” so apparently there was nothing about Kilimnik and probably not Gates either in the first section. There is a mention of owing someone money, but I believe that Manafort owes Deripaska some amount in the millions, so the $125k is probably not related to that. – Things start to become interested/completely redacted starting around page 12. Regrettably, I can’t make any inferrences from it, beyond that I feel like quite a number of the references are about “the President”. But, obviously, that’s just my brain inserting it. Still, probably the actual text would raise the eyebrows of any judge who was seeing the document for the first time, I would bet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5484 "2019-01-16T02:47:18Z")
They take a special form of Botox in the eyebrows to paralyze them when they are going to read something Mueller hands them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=273) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=275)