# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 277
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5525 "2019-01-19T17:10:43Z")
Like second marriages, the triumph of hope over experience. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5526 "2019-01-19T19:35:44Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I see nothing in that statement that states that the Mueller team has no information saying that Cohen was directed to lie to Congress by Trump. I’m not sure how you can draw your conclusion from Carr’s statement. My conclusion was that Mueller wouldn’t be coy, which is not based on the text of the release, it’s based on having read about Mueller. To be certain, you can get into word-play and minutiae to try and decide that it doesn’t mean exactly what it says. And there are people who would write things in a way where they would make a vague denial or a vague statement where the technical wording is true, but the general impression that one would get from reading it is false. Mueller is not one of those people. He’s not going to write a technically true but basically false notice. The general impression that you get from it can be safely extended to cover all minutiae. It is not a document that merits questioning the truthfulness of. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5527 "2019-01-19T19:56:58Z")
The only reason it was believable in the first place was because this is Trump we’re talking about. I’d caution any Trump supporter about feeling too elated or vindicated about this. The next news cycle may not be so forgiving. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5528 "2019-01-19T20:05:43Z")
No, this total vindication, an affidavit from God Almighty countersigned by Gabriel. The convictions and confessions of Manafort, Cohen, Flynn and all others will be vacated and quashed, they will be returned to their honored status as worthy citizens and patriots. Speaker Pelosi will, of course, perform the Walk Of Shame… ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5529 "2019-01-19T20:21:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > My conclusion was that Mueller wouldn’t be coy, which is not based on the text of the release, it’s based on having read about Mueller. No, your conclusion was that > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mueller releases a statement saying that he has no information nor documents saying that Cohen was directed to lie to Congress by Trump: Now, the inference you’ve drawn from the statement, based on what Mueller has done in the past, may be correct. Or it may not. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5530 "2019-01-19T20:22:19Z")
Nah, when Mueller says that it wasn’t his team, it just means that it wasn’t his team. He’s not the sort to say anything, one way or the other, about any other federal law enforcement, like the SDNY (who were more likely to be involved in this matter, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5531 "2019-01-19T22:53:54Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mueller releases a statement saying that he has no information nor documents saying that Cohen was directed to lie to Congress by Trump: > > [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/426128-special-counsel-issues-rare-statement-disputing-buzzfeeds-cohen](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/426128-special-counsel-issues-rare-statement-disputing-buzzfeeds-cohen) > > I’m curious who the “Federal law enforcement officers” were who gave BuzzFeed the original information… You have a right to your own interpretation, but it’s not widely shared (except on the right, of course), as others have pointed out. The actual words from Mueller’s spokesman: > [@](#): > > Buzzfeed’s description of specific statements **to the Special Counsel’s Office** , and characterization of documents and testimony **obtained by this office** , regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate. That’s my emphasis, of course. What Mueller is saying, I believe, is that Buzzfeed improperly implied that _ **Mueller’s office had leaked** _. And Mueller was not going to stand for such an implication being made. And so he issued a statement general and vague enough so that Trump’s defenders could point to it as a total repudiation of everything in the Buzzfeed story------even though it is NOT a repudiation of everything in the Buzzfeed story. It’s only a repudiation of the sourcing Buzzfeed appears to be claiming for their story. In other words: don’t imply Mueller’s team leaks and think you can get away with it. The hammer will fall and your entire story will be swept away, _even if your story is factual_. > [@Chronos](#): > > \*\*Nah, when Mueller says that it wasn’t his team, it just means that it wasn’t his team. \*\* He’s not the sort to say anything, one way or the other, about any other federal law enforcement, like the SDNY (who were more likely to be involved in this matter, anyway). Yes, that. (My emphasis, again.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5532 "2019-01-20T09:08:41Z")
OK, maybe Trump didn’t tell him to lie. Didn’t tell him _not_ to lie, maybe. Maybe didn’t even find out about it, didn’t watch TV that day, so he didn’t even know that Cohen lied! Maybe didn’t remember, heard what Cohen said and thought, yeah, that’s what happened, remember it clearly! Hell, worked for Reagan. > [@](#): > > …A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that is true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not… > **[THE REAGAN WHITE HOUSE; TRANSCRIPT OF REAGAN'S SPEECH: 'I TAKE FULL...](https://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/05/us/reagan-white-house-transcript-reagan-s-speech-take-full-responsibilty-for-my.html)** We bought it! Hey, shit happens, people forget stuff, details, shit like that! Look at that nice old man, you can tell he’s really, really sorry about what happened. Mistakes were made! GeeDubya being cute about the WMD, looking under the couch, lifting up the rug, looking for those weapons. OK, not the best, a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis dead for nothing. Not only didn’t do us any harm, most likely couldn’t have if they wanted to! Well, hey, here’s a comedy skit, so, all good now, right? Water under the bridge! Well, blood, but still! Has it gotten worse? Sure as hell hasn’t gotten any better! And its on us, we let it happen, we looked, we saw, and we didn’t do shit. If all the evidence of this man’s crimes and misdeeds were piled into the Oval Orifice, there wouldn’t be enough room for him to close the door. If not us, who? If not now, when? ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5533 "2019-01-20T18:13:52Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > So do we get to say “go back to Russia” to conservatives now? > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/us-officials-info-suggests-trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/us-officials-info-suggests-trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians/index.html) This was the OP thread, posted on 03-22-2017, 08:28 PM. Now its January 2019… a lot of time has passed. Trump is not even a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5534 "2019-01-20T18:24:08Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Trump is not even a suspect. Really? I can imagine two ways to prove this: 1. A comprehensive list of all the suspects under Mueller’s investigation on which Trump doesn’t appear (we’ll limit it to Mueller, not including NY’s investigations or those of other states or of Congressional committees); or 2. An unambiguous statement by Mueller that Trump is not a suspect. Which of those do you have? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5535 "2019-01-20T18:25:18Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > This was the OP thread, posted on 03-22-2017, 08:28 PM. > > Now its January 2019… a lot of time has passed. Trump is not even a suspect. He actually said early that he fired Comey because of the Russia thing. And now we do now that that prompted an investigation of Trump. I don’t know what definition you use but when someone is targeted by the FBI that guy is a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5536 "2019-01-20T18:36:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Really? > > I can imagine two ways to prove this: > > 1. A comprehensive list of all the suspects under Mueller’s investigation on which Trump doesn’t appear (we’ll limit it to Mueller, not including NY’s investigations or those of other states or of Congressional committees); or > 2. An unambiguous statement by Mueller that Trump is not a suspect. > > Which of those do you have? I have Muellers words to the press. Mueller says Trump i **s not** a criminal target. He has brought forth zero charges on the President. Those are the facts. If they change after 2+ years of fishing, we’ll see. Can you show me any proof that Trump has done wrong? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5537 "2019-01-20T18:42:55Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Mueller says Trump i **s not** a criminal target. You are using the present tense, but when is the last time Mueller said that? The one I could find was from [April 2018](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-told-trumps-attorneys-the-president-remains-under-investigation-but-is-not-currently-a-criminal-target/2018/04/03/d7832cf0-36c1-11e8-acd5-35eac230e514_story.html?utm_term=.facf8fd3925d) when he said Trump was a **subject** of the investigation, but not a target _at that time_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5538 "2019-01-20T19:53:54Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > I have Muellers words to the press. > > Mueller says Trump i **s not** a criminal target. Do you have a link? I missed this; I guess it was recent news? > [@](#): > > Can you show me any proof that Trump has done wrong? [Multiple counts of obstruction of justice](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/08/22/laying-out-the-obstruction-of-justice-case-against-president-trump/), [witness tampering](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-03/trump-tweets-look-a-lot-like-witness-tampering), and probably more that I’m forgetting. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5539 "2019-01-20T20:09:48Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > I have Muellers words to the press. You manifestly do not. Having those words would consist of quoting them, or at the very least linking to them. My prediction: you’re going to quote or link to something that actually doesn’t say what you initially claimed. Wait, no, my real prediction: you won’t even link to anything. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5540 "2019-01-21T13:02:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Do you have a link? I missed this; I guess it was recent news? > > [Multiple counts of obstruction of justice](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/08/22/laying-out-the-obstruction-of-justice-case-against-president-trump/), [witness tampering](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-03/trump-tweets-look-a-lot-like-witness-tampering), and probably more that I’m forgetting. Oh, add potentially “[illegally targeting federal employees for partisan reasons](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/trump-shutdown-targets-democratic-workers-illegal.html)”. (Man, sure got quiet in here.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5541 "2019-01-21T13:30:39Z")
N/m ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5542 "2019-01-21T14:27:03Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Those are the facts. If they change after 2+ years of fishing, we’ll see. At this point, we’re gonna need a bigger boat. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5543 "2019-01-21T19:42:39Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > You are using the present tense, but when is the last time Mueller said that? The one I could find was from [April 2018](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-told-trumps-attorneys-the-president-remains-under-investigation-but-is-not-currently-a-criminal-target/2018/04/03/d7832cf0-36c1-11e8-acd5-35eac230e514_story.html?utm_term=.facf8fd3925d) when he said Trump was a **subject** of the investigation, but not a target _at that time_. Okay, not a target. With each passing month, Mueller’s hand looks weaker. If the President is not a target, and Mueller already picked the low hanging fruits of people for not paying their taxes, all he has left is to squeeze the juice out of what he has and hope they tell different stories to lower their prison times. He already shot down Trump telling Cohen to lie. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/5544 "2019-01-21T19:45:50Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > With each passing month, Mueller’s hand looks weaker. If that helps you sleep at night, fine. But I see it quite differently. To me, the case against Individual One looks like it’s coming along fine. In any event, we’ll now within a few months and we can decide then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=276) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=278)