# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/543 "2017-07-09T23:04:57Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > Don JR wouldn’t b/c he was and still is a private citizen. Jared Kushner would for his security clearance, and my understanding is that he waited until just a few days ago. The Russian lawyer, I believe, is Putin’s point person for attacking the Magnitsky Act, a US law that blacklists Russian human rights abusers that Putin is supposedly extremely pissed about. OK, but is that lawyer actually a “Russian Official”, or just a Russian who may have some very close connections to bona fide Russian Officials. Would Kushner be required to report the meeting with her? Does anyone here actually know this, or are we just assuming at this point? I’ve got CNN on in the background, and it’s been on for about 30 minutes, and I’m not hearing anything definitive. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/544 "2017-07-09T23:15:23Z")
I love that the president “was not aware” of these meetings. Throwing his own son under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/545 "2017-07-09T23:16:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, but is that lawyer actually a “Russian Official”, or just a Russian who may have some very close connections to bona fide Russian Officials. Would Kushner be required to report the meeting with her? Does anyone here actually know this, or are we just assuming at this point? I’ve got CNN on in the background, and it’s been on for about 30 minutes, and I’m not hearing anything definitive. I don’t know her exact job title, but she represents several state owned businesses and is/was lobbying against the Act in DC on behalf of the Kremlin. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/546 "2017-07-09T23:17:37Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > I don’t know her exact job title, but she represents several state owned businesses and is/was lobbying against the Act in DC on behalf of the Kremlin. The obvious conclusion here is that she was offering dirt on Clinton or other help in response for help on her own pet project. This is collusion. Gee, I wonder if they’ve been working with Foxnews on controlling this story. Hannity several weeks ago: “If I knew Russians had damaging HRC info + I worked on Trump’s campaign, would it be illegal for me to ask them to release?” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/547 "2017-07-09T23:23:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, but is that lawyer actually a “Russian Official”, or just a Russian who may have some very close connections to bona fide Russian Officials. Would Kushner be required to report the meeting with her? Does anyone here actually know this, or are we just assuming at this point? I’ve got CNN on in the background, and it’s been on for about 30 minutes, and I’m not hearing anything definitive. “Russian Officials” and “just a Russian who may have some very close connections to bona fide Russian Officials” is virtually a distinction without a difference. If you’re on the inside of Putin’s Russia, then you’re an operative. This is what a lot of Americans don’t understand. Russia does not have a government in the way we understand government. They have a government of Putin and his chosen oligarchs. Very similar to what Trump hopes to set up here, in fact. If you haven’t seen it, Richard Engel has done a very excellent in-depth piece airing again tonight at 5:00 p.m. PST on MSNBC that explains how Russian “government” works these days. I recommend it to anyone who can watch it to do so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/548 "2017-07-09T23:35:02Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > I don’t know her exact job title, but she represents several state owned businesses and is/was lobbying against the Act in DC on behalf of the Kremlin. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > “Russian Officials” and “just a Russian who may have some very close connections to bona fide Russian Officials” is virtually a distinction without a difference. If you’re on the inside of Putin’s Russia, then you’re an operative. This is what a lot of Americans don’t understand. Russia does not have a government in the way we understand government. They have a government of Putin and his chosen oligarchs. Very similar to what Trump hopes to set up here, in fact. > > If you haven’t seen it, Richard Engel has done a very excellent in-depth piece airing again tonight at 5:00 p.m. PST on MSNBC that explains how Russian “government” works these days. I recommend it to anyone who can watch it to do so. But, per the law in question, is she a “Russian official”? I can see where she might be one, but it’s not clear that she must be one. It would be nice if one of our legal experts would weigh in. Anyway, the contents of the meeting is, I think, going to be a lot more important. If they talked about damaging info about Hillary, then this puts the whole collusion thing in more realistic play. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/549 "2017-07-09T23:41:04Z")
Also, Trump, who had no knowledge of the meeting, [happens to have been there](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-amid-fundraising-worries-trump-gathers-potential-2016jun09-story.html) [at the time](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/06/09/Donald-Trump-courts-GOP-donors-in-NYC/3441465482795/). So, the official Trump story is that DJT was there to gather illegally obtained information from Russians, but was disappointed that he wasn’t able to. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/550 "2017-07-09T23:49:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But, per the law in question, is she a “Russian official”? I can see where she might be one, but it’s not clear that she must be one. It would be nice if one of our legal experts would weigh in. > > Anyway, the contents of the meeting is, I think, going to be a lot more important. If they talked about damaging info about Hillary, then this puts the whole collusion thing in more realistic play. Again, I keep seeing you try to define Russian “government” within a meaning of our own. It simply doesn’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/551 "2017-07-10T00:22:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Let’s say this rather shaky theory is true; even if it is, _how does that explain the failures of Manafort, Kushner, and Don. Jr. to report the meeting?_ Presuming stupidity over malevolence, the reason would be that when one has a half dozen meetings per day every day, with people from all over the world, about a wide variety of political and financial topics, it can become difficult to remember them all. Of course, that’s why you don’t answer the question yourself. You ask your secretary to go back through your schedule and check. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/552 "2017-07-10T00:25:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I don’t understand your “astonishment”. Can you tell me, with a straight face, that if Clinton’s campaign officials were told that someone “had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Republican National Committee and supporting Donald Trump” these Clinton’s campaign officials would NOT run, not walk, to meet that person? Of course not - because the Clintons are professional politicians. They don’t take meetings with nameless strangers on the advice of some dude from Moscow that they met at a Miss Universe pageant. I’m sure all celebrities - even the Trumps - get dozens of calls a day from sketchy randos flogging all sorts of garbage. Those sketchy randos never get in the same room with their A-List targets. The Clintons and their close advisors, especially their campaign staff, do not rush into meetings with people, without even learning their names, no matter what priceless object they claim to have for sale. The Clintons and their staff undoubtedly have a whole process for dealing with setting up meetings for their campaign staff. That Junior agreed to this meeting without bothering to ask who he would be seeing - but still thought it was important enough to include Kushner and Manafort - is actually not very credible. I assume he’s lying about that part. But if he is telling the truth then it’s yet another example of the Trump Amateur Hour. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/553 "2017-07-10T00:34:56Z")
In spite of the feeding frenzy, no one seems to have answered my question, so I will repeat: Can you elaborate, what exactly is wrong with Trump campaign officials meeting with someone who claims that she “has information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”? It would be a dereliction of duty NOT to meet with such a person. And if that information actually checked out, it would be a dereliction of duty NOT to publish it. Wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/554 "2017-07-10T00:48:36Z")
No, not at all. Quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/555 "2017-07-10T00:58:09Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > It was actually _Republican_ anti-Trumpers that hired Fusion-GPS to do oppo-research against Trump _before he won the nomination_. After he was their guy they cancelled the Trump dirt-digging contract, but that account at Fusion GPS was then picked up by Democrats and contracted out to Steele’s firm for intel, which was eventually continued by him pro-bono. > [@JohnT](#): > > Just because 2016 was “FUCK YOU RATIONALITY” and then 2017 then replied, “Wait, hold my beer…” > > Is this a joke? Or real? Because, sometimes, it’s fuckin’ hard to tell nowadays. No jokes. It’s all fairly standard stuff for Washington, too. Fusion GPS is like a mercenary “private spy” agency, they sell intel and research to everybody who pays. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/556 "2017-07-10T00:58:10Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > In spite of the feeding frenzy, no one seems to have answered my question, so I will repeat: > > Can you elaborate, what exactly is wrong with Trump campaign officials meeting with someone who claims that she “has information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”? > > It would be a dereliction of duty NOT to meet with such a person. And if that information actually checked out, it would be a dereliction of duty NOT to publish it. > > Wouldn’t you say? They weren’t meeting with someone who said they had information about the Russians, the DNC and Clinton. “I was asked to have a meeting by an acquaintance I knew from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant with an individual **who I was told might have information helpful to the campaign.** ” It was after Jr. decided to collude with this person that he found out the information was bullshit. Which I’m sure made him very sad. And everyone present decided to forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/557 "2017-07-10T01:05:56Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > They weren’t meeting with someone who said they had information about the Russians, the DNC and Clinton. “I was asked to have a meeting by an acquaintance I knew from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant with an individual **who I was told might have information helpful to the campaign.** ” It was after Jr. decided to collude with this person that he found out the information was bullshit. Which I’m sure made him very sad. And everyone present decided to forget it. Unless you think that “collude” means “get information that is useful to you”, what you just said is complete and utter bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/558 "2017-07-10T01:19:00Z")
“Eagerly accepting help from a foreign power by being given information–likely obtained illegally–that would damage your opponent in a national election” is collusion. Their defense right now is “Well, we thought we would be colluding but they didn’t have the dirt they promised”, which doesn’t matter. The meeting was attended with that specific intention in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/559 "2017-07-10T01:23:18Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > “Eagerly accepting help from a foreign power by being given information–likely obtained illegally–that would damage your opponent in a national election” is collusion. Who better than Russians would know whether “individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”? And why would that information be “obtained illegally”? Illegally by which country’s laws? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/560 "2017-07-10T01:35:11Z")
So many questions, am I right!? Why, there oughta be an investigation! ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/561 "2017-07-10T02:34:08Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Who better than Russians would know whether “individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”? And why would that information be “obtained illegally”? Illegally by which country’s laws? Mother Jones has an article out right now about the possible legalities of colluding with the Russians in the illegal hack of the DNC and RNC (which - yeah, “individuals connected to Russia” knew all about, including the Presidential individual openly egging them on by public encouraging the hackers to go after Hillary.) > **[Sorry, Fox News: Trump collusion with Russia could break more than a dozen laws](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/06/sorry-fox-news-legal-experts-say-trump-collusion-with-russia-could-be-a-crime/)** > > Trump defenders' latest argument is not much of a legal defense. > [@MoJo article about the illegality of Trump's campaign colluding with the Russians](#): > > Attorneys also say that a person who colluded with hackers should worry about being charged for wire fraud, a broad law that prohibits the use of communications technology, including the internet, with the intent to commit fraud. They also note that a colluder could face prosecution for violating copyright, trade secrets, and even espionage laws. > > An indication of the breadth of charges federal prosecutors can level in hacking cases came in March in California. Prosecutors there charged four men, including two members of Russia’s Federal Security Service, with a high-profile penetration into 500 million Yahoo user accounts in 2014. The two Russian officials, accused of supporting but not participating in the breach, drew dozens of federal charges, including conspiracy to commit computer fraud, conspiracy to commit access device fraud, conspiracy to steal trade secrets, and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. > > A law barring foreign nationals from providing assistance in US elections could also put Trump aides in legal danger. That law, strengthened in the wake of allegations that Bill Clinton’s 1996 reelection campaign benefited from Chinese support, prohibits foreigners from providing “anything of value” in connection with an election. Bob Bauer, who served as White House counsel under former President Barack Obama, wrote in a June 2 analysis that Russian actions aimed at helping elect Trump, including the hacking and release of embarrassing emails from the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, represent an overlooked illegal campaign donation. “The case is more or less hiding in plain sight,” Bauer insisted. > > Under this law, US campaign officials must provide “substantial assistance” to a foreign person or entity helping their campaign in order to face criminal liability. Secret contacts aimed at securing Russian help would probably meet the standard. So might public statements like Trump’s invitation for more Russian hacking and his repeated praise of WikiLeaks, the site that disseminated the Democratic emails swiped by Russian intelligence. Bauer argued that such statements alerted Russian officials that their efforts were welcome. Those statements also made clear that Trump considered Russia’s assistance to be “of value,” said Bauer. The article is long and quotes by name the various attorneys who were interviewed for their thoughts on the illegality of colluding with Moscow. The article also points out how Fox News has pivoted from denying that Trump’s people ever colluding to asking, “Well, what’s the big deal if they did, anyway?” > [@Mojo article](#): > > In recent weeks, President Donald Trump’s defenders have been pushing a curious new line: Even if Trump and his presidential campaign colluded with Russia’s secret operation to subvert the 2016 campaign, that would not be illegal. Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume made this argument during a panel Sunday, saying, “Collusion, while it obviously would be alarming and highly inappropriate for the Trump campaign…it’s not a crime.” He added, “Can anyone identify the crime?” So apparently this whole “Collusion - so what if we did?” line of questioning is the new Republican playbook. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/562 "2017-07-10T02:37:31Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Mother Jones has an article out right now about the possible legalities of colluding with the Russians in the illegal hack of the DNC and RNC (which - yeah, “individuals connected to Russia” knew all about, including the Presidential individual openly egging them on by public encouraging the hackers to go after Hillary.) I was not asking about the “hack of DNC and RNC” was I? We were talking about information that “individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”. What exactly would be illegal about receiving and disseminating that information? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=29)