# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/623 "2017-07-10T18:20:16Z")
[Who is this Russian lawyer, anyway?](http://www.thedailybeast.com/team-trump-secretly-met-rep-of-accused-russian-crime-family) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/624 "2017-07-10T20:06:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I was not asking about the “hack of DNC and RNC” was I? > > We were talking about information that “individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton”. What exactly would be illegal about receiving and disseminating that information? You didn’t read the article I quoted, did you? Not even the part of the article that I quoted right there in [post #560](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20333635&postcount=560post)? Here - I’ll quote that part again: > [@Mother Jones articles about the various laws which are potentially going to send the Trump Family to the pokey](#): > > \*\*A law barring foreign nationals from providing assistance in US elections could also put Trump aides in legal danger. \*\*That law, strengthened in the wake of allegations that Bill Clinton’s 1996 reelection campaign benefited from Chinese support, prohibits foreigners from providing “anything of value” in connection with an election. Bob Bauer, who served as White House counsel under former President Barack Obama, wrote in a June 2 analysis that Russian actions aimed at helping elect Trump, including the hacking and release of embarrassing emails from the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, represent an overlooked illegal campaign donation. “The case is more or less hiding in plain sight,” Bauer insisted. > > Under this law, US campaign officials must provide “substantial assistance” to a foreign person or entity helping their campaign in order to face criminal liability. Secret contacts aimed at securing Russian help would probably meet the standard. So might public statements like Trump’s invitation for more Russian hacking and his repeated praise of WikiLeaks, the site that disseminated the Democratic emails swiped by Russian intelligence. Bauer argued that such statements alerted Russian officials that their efforts were welcome. Those statements also made clear that Trump considered Russia’s assistance to be “of value,” said Bauer. The article, which pre-dates Junior’s admission, deals with the hacking situation. But the point is - there is a law on the books **barring foreign nationals from providing assistance in US elections**. Junior, at the request of some Russian dude he met in connection with the Moscow Miss Universe pageant, went to a meeting seeking to receive campaign assistance from foreign nationals. He brought along his brother-in-law and his dad’s campaign manager - all of this at a time when the Russians were actively engaged in hacking our election information and leaking damaging info to Wikileaks. Man, I can’t wait to see this schmuck under oath. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/625 "2017-07-10T20:11:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Political campaigns pay for opposition research all the time. Information about an opponent is a thing of value. > [@Okrahoma](#): > > [eCFR :: Title 11 of the CFR -- Federal Elections](https://fec-prod-eregs.app.cloud.gov/regulations/100-52/2017-annual-100#100-52-b-2) > > “… the term anything of value includes all in-kind contributions. Unless specifically exempted under 11 CFR part 100, subpart C, the provision of any goods or services without charge or at a charge that is less than the usual and normal charge for such goods or services is a contribution. Examples of such goods or services include, but are not limited to: Securities, facilities, equipment, supplies, personnel, advertising services, membership lists, and mailing lists. If goods or services are provided at less than the usual and normal charge, the amount of the in-kind contribution is the difference between the usual and normal charge for the goods or services at the time of the contribution and the amount charged the political committee.” > > Show me where “information” is in that. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > What part of “include, but are not limited to” did you miss? > [@Okrahoma](#): > > “Anything of value refers to any goods that have a certain utility to the recipient that is real and that is ordinarily not given away free but is purchased.” > > [https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/](https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/) > > **Note specifically: > "Anything of value does not include: > … > d. informational or promotional items**" You’ve mistaken “informational items” for “information.” They are not the same thing. The exception made for “Informational items” means that the government-employee recipient can’t be held to have received ‘something of value’ when what they got was a pamphlet or brochure or DVD that explains the program or organization or whatever is being promoted by the person who hands the government employee that pamphlet or brochure or DVD. This is to prevent government employees from being accused have having received (essentially) a bribe because Joe Blow, representative of PleaseGiveUsTheContract Papergoods Inc., handed the government employee a DVD which makes the case that PGUTC Papergoods is the best company for whatever needs the government employee has been instructed to fulfill by finding a suitable vendor. This is nothing whatsoever to do with the question of whether information provided to a campaign was of value to that campaign. The policy you cite offers no protection to campaign associates who seek to receive such information. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/626 "2017-07-10T20:12:25Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Junior, at the request of some Russian dude he met in connection with the Moscow Miss Universe pageant, went to a meeting seeking to receive campaign assistance from foreign nationals. He brought along his brother-in-law and his dad’s campaign manager - all of this at a time when the Russians were actively engaged in hacking our election information and leaking damaging info to Wikileaks. > . It’s OK, because anybody would have done the same, and so Hillary would have done it too. That is seriously what some are proposing as a defence. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/627 "2017-07-10T21:18:02Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Look, you guys don’t learn. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Evidently not, since some people still bother responding to you. We’re not learning anything from you, just as you certainly aren’t learning anything from us. The reason we respond is not to learn, it’s to prevent lines of argument like that to be taken as true by others who might read them. You don’t leave them uncontested. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/628 "2017-07-10T21:22:41Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yet you get excited EVERY time. Don’t you get tired of it? Not excited. Disgusted. I’ll be excited when it’s over. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/629 "2017-07-10T21:28:21Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Who is this Russian lawyer, anyway?](http://www.thedailybeast.com/team-trump-secretly-met-rep-of-accused-russian-crime-family) I’d lift her sanctions, if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/630 "2017-07-10T21:32:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You don’t know that. Yet you say it over and over again in the plainest of terms, as if you know absolutely that this is all just a made-up conspiracy theory. But you don’t, and you can’t, so you are simply making a profession of faith, which has no value here. > > Btw, what I said was “it looks pretty damn bad.” That’s all. But you can’t even admit that. “It looks pretty damn bad” to whom? The Democrat collective who willingly accept any anti-Trump rant as “a profession of faith” that something illegal/unsavory/fattening/scary/un-democratic must have taken place? Personally, I’ll wait for the results of an official investigation before I get any exercise jumping to conclusions. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/631 "2017-07-10T21:37:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > We’re not learning anything from you, just as you certainly aren’t learning anything from us. > > The reason we respond is not to learn, it’s to prevent lines of argument like that to be taken as true by others who might read them. You don’t leave them uncontested. (underline added) Some people do. 😉 Some people request that others should leave arguments uncontested. Some people actually follow that advice. Oh well, life goes on regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/632 "2017-07-10T21:44:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “It looks pretty damn bad” to whom? The Democrat collective who willingly accept any anti-Trump rant as “a profession of faith” that something illegal/unsavory/fattening/scary/un-democratic must have taken place? You’re in luck. Here’s a whole passel of GOP operatives opining on how awful and unprecedented this is. > **[GOP Campaign Veterans Say They Wouldn't Have Met With Foreign Agent Offering...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-meeting-russia-campaign_n_5963a7a0e4b0615b9e936e06?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009)** > > “Senior presidential campaign officials don’t take meetings with nameless people." > [@article about GOP politicos appalled at Junior's behavior](#): > > Rick Tyler, a former top aide to the presidential campaign of Sen. Ted Cruz Texas, said he would have called the FBI if approached by a foreign agent from an adversarial nation like Russia. > > **“Senior presidential campaign officials don’t take meetings with nameless people. Doesn’t happen,” Tyler said.** > > Cruz emerged as one of Trump’s main foes in last year’s Republican race. > > Michael Steel, a former top aide to the presidential campaign of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, said the presence of a campaign manager at such a meeting would be unusual. > > “Aside from the candidate himself, the campaign manager’s time is among the most valuable resources for any campaign,” he told HuffPost. **“So, yes, it would be very odd for the campaign manager to appear at a meeting with a more-or-less random foreigner claiming they’re peddling [opposition research.]”** > > Stuart Stevens, the chief strategist for Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, echoed that sentiment. > > “If you can find someone in other presidential campaigns who has received oppo from foreign interests, please share,” he wrote on Twitter, referring to opposition research. > > Stevens noted an episode during the 2000 presidential campaign when debate preparation materials from the campaign of then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush (R) were mysteriously mailed to the campaign of his Democratic opponent, then-Vice President Al Gore. Thomas Downey, Gore’s debate coach, contacted the FBI when he realized the package contained leaked information from Bush’s campaign. Bolded those bits for our own GOP operatives trying to argue that everyone would have done the same. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/633 "2017-07-10T21:45:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “It looks pretty damn bad” to whom? The Democrat collective who willingly accept any anti-Trump rant as “a profession of faith” that something illegal/unsavory/fattening/scary/un-democratic must have taken place? > > Personally, I’ll wait for the results of an official investigation before I get any exercise jumping to conclusions. YMMV. Unsavory and undemocratic are pretty much a given with Trump and his brood. Illegal remains to be seen. I have numerous (well-founded) suspicions and I voice them, especially when the ‘faithful’ become amateur defense lawyers. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/634 "2017-07-10T21:46:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’d lift her sanctions, if you know what I mean. Think she’s an _apparatchikita_? Hot to Trotsky? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/635 "2017-07-10T21:47:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I have numerous (well-founded) suspicions and I voice them, especially when the ‘faithful’ become amateur defense lawyers. Deal with it. (post shortened) I did. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/636 "2017-07-10T21:50:51Z")
You’d like to nationalize her industry, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/637 "2017-07-10T21:53:24Z")
Also - for the record, the guy who set up the meeting with Veselnitskaya is music producer Rob Goldstone, who works with a Russian pop star whose dad is a big-money developer who produced that infamous Miss Universe 2013. > **[Donald Trump Jr. met with Russian lawyer during presidential campaign after...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/presidents-son-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-presidential-campaign-after-being-promised-information-helpful-to-fathers-effort/2017/07/09/90c0e3e8-64e9-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?utm_term=.bd1e1279bf33)** > > The president’s son said his father was unaware of the meeting and nothing came of it. (scroll down - this is at the end of the article) > [@wapo article](#): > > In his statement, Trump Jr. said he was approached about the meeting by an acquaintance he knew from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant. > > He did not name the acquaintance, but in an interview Sunday, Rob Goldstone, a music publicist who is friendly with Trump Jr., told The Washington Post that he had arranged the meeting at the request of a Russian client and had attended it along with Veselnitskaya. > > Goldstone has been active with the Miss Universe pageant and works as a manager for Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop star whose father is a wealthy Moscow developer who sponsored the pageant in the Russian capital in 2013. > > Goldstone would not name the client. He said Veselnitskaya wanted to discuss ways that Trump could be helpful about the Russian government’s adoption issue should he be elected president. > > “Once she presented what she had to say, it was like, ‘Can you keep an eye on it? Should [Trump] be in power, maybe that’s a conversation that he may have in the future?’ ” Goldstone said. > > In the Sunday interview, Goldstone did not describe the conversation about Clinton or indicate that he had told Trump Jr. that he could provide information helpful to the campaign. He did not respond to a second request for comment late Sunday. Likewise, a spokeswoman for Donald Trump Jr. did not respond when asked whether Goldstone was the acquaintance to whom the president’s son was referring. Remember again that “discussing child adoptions” is actually about discussing lifting the Magnitsky act sanctions, which is tying up Russian oligarch money. Putin imposed the end of Russian adoptions in retaliation for impelenting the Magnitsky act. Goldstone doesn’t mention Clinton or telling Junior that he set up the meeting because he had someone who wanted discuss Russian dirt on Hillary. Goldstone says it was all about the Russian sanctions. It’s possible that Junior is lying about going to meet Veselnitskaya because he knew that discussing the Magnitsky act before the election was verboten. So he made up an excuse about getting Russian dirt on Clinton, not realizing it was opening a whole different can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/638 "2017-07-10T21:53:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > …Personally, I’ll wait for the results of an official investigation before I get any exercise jumping to conclusions. YMMV. (post shortened because ellipses are what plants crave) We both are, only difference is that I’m looking forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/639 "2017-07-10T22:04:12Z")
> [@](#): > > …Also - for the record, the guy who set up the meeting with Veselnitskaya is music producer Rob Goldstone, who works with a Russian pop star whose dad is a big-money developer who produced that infamous Miss Universe 2013… Dear Mr. Wapo: We thank you for the opportunity to read the outline for your proposed “political thriller” novel. We regret to advise that it is our opinion that the plotline is ridiculous, and reads like something Ian Fleming would have been ashamed to publish. We wish you much success in any other endeavor, please forget our address. The Editors Remainder House Books ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/640 "2017-07-10T22:16:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Think she’s an _apparatchikita_? Hot to Trotsky? Let’s just say there’s a time for using hard power and her use of soft power might give rise to such a decision. As long as there isn’t too much vodka involved in which case it’s soft power all round. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/641 "2017-07-10T22:16:26Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [eCFR :: Title 11 of the CFR -- Federal Elections](https://fec-prod-eregs.app.cloud.gov/regulations/100-52/2017-annual-100#100-52-b-2) > > “… the term anything of value includes all in-kind contributions. Unless specifically exempted under 11 CFR part 100, subpart C, the provision of any goods or services without charge or at a charge that is less than the usual and normal charge for such goods or services is a contribution. Examples of such goods or services include, but are not limited to: Securities, facilities, equipment, supplies, personnel, advertising services, **membership lists, and mailing lists.** If goods or services are provided at less than the usual and normal charge, the amount of the in-kind contribution is the difference between the usual and normal charge for the goods or services at the time of the contribution and the amount charged the political committee.” > > Show me where “information” is in that. I added the bolding. Membership lists and mailing lists given as examples aren’t of value because the paper they are printed on or the disks they’re written to are so expensive. They are of value because of the information they contain. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/642 "2017-07-10T22:18:38Z")
[And… Trump Jr. has lawyered up.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/donald-trump-jr-hires-lawyer-for-russia-probes/article35627677/) > [@](#): > > Donald Trump Jr. has hired a lawyer to represent him in Russia-related investigations, his office and the lawyer said on Monday, as Republicans voiced concern about a meeting between the U.S. president’s son and a Russian. > > Trump Jr. hired New York lawyer Alan Futerfas, who specializes in criminal defense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=33)