# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/643 "2017-07-10T22:19:46Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You’ve mistaken “informational items” for “information.” They are not the same thing. > > The exception made for “Informational items” means that the government-employee recipient can’t be held to have received ‘something of value’ when what they got was a pamphlet or brochure or DVD that explains the program or organization or whatever is being promoted by the person who hands the government employee that pamphlet or brochure or DVD. > > This is to prevent government employees from being accused have having received (essentially) a bribe because Joe Blow, representative of PleaseGiveUsTheContract Papergoods Inc., handed the government employee a DVD which makes the case that PGUTC Papergoods is the best company for whatever needs the government employee has been instructed to fulfill by finding a suitable vendor. > > This is nothing whatsoever to do with the question of whether information provided to a campaign was of value to that campaign. The policy you cite offers no protection to campaign associates who seek to receive such information. That is your interpretation. Please provide any legal precedent where information provided to campaign on opponent’s criminal misdeeds was deemed to be a “thing of value” and thus relevant to that law. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/644 "2017-07-10T22:23:27Z")
[Trump Sr. knew nothing of the meeting.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/politics/trump-knowledge-meeting-natalia-veselnitskaya/index.html)He is completely ignorant. And under the bus goes Trump Jr. Of course, Trump Sr. was doing a fundraiser on the same day, in the same building as this meeting… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/645 "2017-07-10T22:25:18Z")
Interesting statement in that article from Pence’s team: > [@](#): > > “The vice president was not aware of the meeting,” said Marc Lotter, Pence’s spokesman. "He is not focused on stories about the campaign, **particularly stories about the time before he joined the ticket."** bolding mine. Looks like Pence is really trying to put some space between him and the Trump Dumpster Fire. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/646 "2017-07-10T22:25:40Z")
Why am I picturing **Okrahoma** grabbing the crotch of a female scarecrow? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/647 "2017-07-10T22:26:51Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That is your interpretation. > > Please provide any legal precedent where information provided to campaign on opponent’s criminal misdeeds was deemed to be a “thing of value” and thus relevant to that law. And now we see the move from “Probably the democrats would have done the same thing” to: “It’s probably not even a crime, so it’s all good.” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/648 "2017-07-10T22:28:01Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And now we see the move from “Probably the democrats would have done the same thing” > > to: > > “It’s probably not even a crime, so it’s all good.” Democrats would have RUSHED to do the same thing and no, it’s not a crime. Both things are true. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/649 "2017-07-10T22:28:28Z")
Podesta trolls Trump: > [@](#): > > 1/ Everyone here at this gas station in Stratton, CO is talking about how @realDonaldTrump didn’t know his son… > > 2/2 son-in-law and campaign manager were meeting in his office building with a Russian who promised negative information about Hillary. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/650 "2017-07-10T22:33:08Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Democrats would have RUSHED to do the same thing and no, it’s not a crime. Both things are true. No, these things are not true. They are in your imagination. They are your personal suppositions, based on nothing more than wish-fulfillment and magical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/651 "2017-07-10T22:36:25Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Why am I picturing **Okrahoma** grabbing the crotch of a female scarecrow? This is out of line for this forum and given my previous instruction in post #585, this is a warning for failure to follow moderator instructions. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/652 "2017-07-10T22:44:18Z")
nvm ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/653 "2017-07-10T23:26:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Democrats would have RUSHED to do the same thing and no, it’s not a crime. Both things are true. Gore was offered dirt on Bush without even seeking it out, and he turned it over to the FBI without using it. Retract and admit you’re making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/654 "2017-07-10T23:45:00Z")
With all due awe, you _really_ got to cite that one, **Snarky**. As well, there are times when _not_ choosing to be an ethical paragon might save a whole bunch of people of a butt-load of misfortune. Just sayin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/655 "2017-07-10T23:48:30Z")
[Gore Aid Receives, Then Lets Go of Hot Potato](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/14/us/the-2000-campaign-the-debate-gore-aide-receives-then-lets-go-of-hot-potato.html) > [@](#): > > A close adviser to Vice President Al Gore said he had received an anonymously mailed package today that involved material designed to prepare Gov. George W. Bush for his debates with Mr. Gore. > The adviser, former Representative Tom Downey of Long Island, N.Y., said he examined the materials briefly before giving them to his lawyer, who turned them over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation this afternoon. Mr. Downey, who has been helping Mr. Gore prepare for the Bush debates and was standing in for Mr. Bush in mock debates, also said he would recuse himself from any further debate preparation. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/656 "2017-07-10T23:55:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > [Gore Aid Receives, Then Lets Go of Hot Potato](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/14/us/the-2000-campaign-the-debate-gore-aide-receives-then-lets-go-of-hot-potato.html) It would appear then that in the real world, rather than in someone’s fevered imagination, when offered up dirt on an opponent, Democrats did NOT actually RUSH to do the same thing. Not really surprising. I also doubt that ANY of the other campaigns in the Republican leadership race would have RUSHED to do the same thing. In fact, I think only the Trump Dumpster Fire clowns would have done it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/657 "2017-07-11T00:04:45Z")
The idea that the Campaign Manager and the candidate’s son in law would sit in on a meeting with a nameless person is ludicrous. Regardless of the hell executives get on these boards, they are very time-disciplined as a whole and just don’t sit in random meetings. Look, the Russia thing wasn’t one “hacking” attempt - it was thousands, spread over months, long before and long after this meeting. And on August 17th, 2016, Donald Trump and his senior associates started getting National Security briefings where the FBI, CIA, etc all told him that these hacks were occurring and were part of a larger campaign. Therefore, _any action taken by Trump or his staff to discount or impede the investigation after that date is, in fact, “collusion”._ And let’s be clear: according to attorney Seth Abraham, when saying “collusion” [the more precise term would be “crime”](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/884434037770772480), particularly “Accessories to Felonies After the Fact.” Which is why Trump _has_ to continually insist there is no “Trump/Russia”. Because to admit he knew “officially” on August 17th, 2106 that this was happening, would, by itself, mean his later assertions were crimes. But, using his powers of the Presidency, he can claim both ignorance (“they didn’t tell me and acted without my authority!”) AND knowledge (“I’m the President and I know stuff you don’t, so, no. No Trump/Russia.”) to deflect the charge. For a while. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/658 "2017-07-11T00:29:28Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > [Gore Aid Receives, Then Lets Go of Hot Potato](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/14/us/the-2000-campaign-the-debate-gore-aide-receives-then-lets-go-of-hot-potato.html) Thanks for stepping in. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/659 "2017-07-11T00:31:28Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Gore was offered dirt on Bush without even seeking it out, and he turned it over to the FBI without using it. This (in Trump’s campaign case) was not “dirt”. This was supposed evidence of a crime committed on the opponent’s team. And which part of “he examined the materials” were unclear to you in that article? How exactly can you “turn it over to the FBI” without meeting the person to receive something to “turn over”? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/660 "2017-07-11T00:39:39Z")
I thought it was “supposed to be” about adoptions. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/661 "2017-07-11T01:01:14Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > This (in Trump’s campaign case) was not “dirt”. This was supposed evidence of a crime committed on the opponent’s team. All the more reason to report such a contact to the people empowered to investigate crimes. > [@](#): > > And which part of “he examined the materials” were unclear to you in that article? The “he” that examined the materials was an adviser, not Gore himself, who then recused himself from helping Gore prepare for the debates. Says so right in the quote Bone posted. > [@](#): > > How exactly can you “turn it over to the FBI” without meeting the person to receive something to “turn over”? The materials were mailed to the Gore campaign. That’s also in the quote Bone posted. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/662 "2017-07-11T01:02:50Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I thought it was “supposed to be” about adoptions. Adoptions that Putin halted in direct response to the Magnitsky act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=34)