# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/703 "2017-07-11T15:03:37Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Do you trust Bricker? We can deposit the $ with him and he will disburse the winnings. Does that satisfy your suspicions? > > So - willing to put your $ where your mouth is? So, this is how we decide who’s correct on a legal issue these days? Whether a couple of anonymous strangers will bet on their assertions on the Internet? [Spock] Fascinating. [/Spock] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/704 "2017-07-11T15:17:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No. I am pretty sure Flynn broke the law about foreign lobbyists. > > This latest thing though - the Don Jr. thing. Everyone is so sure this is it, right? But no one is sure enough to bet. Pathetic. Why doesn’t Flynn count? How about this: $100 bet, if anyone other than Flynn who is associated with the Trump campaign or Trump Administration is indicted in the next 18 months for matters relating to the Russia investigation. Surely you HAVE to take this bet, given how sure you are that Trump has always done everything right. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/705 "2017-07-11T15:27:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Looks like this morning’s Fox News spin is: > “The person Trump Jr. spoke with has nothing to do with the Russian Government at all. It was all innocent. Nothing to see here. You can take her word for it.” Donald Jr. released some emails about the meeting: [x.com](https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413) In the emails, Donald Jr. is told; “Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow…” And then later, “The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.” I’m not concluding that this is illegal, but WHAT THE FUCK?? If I were on a campaign (and I have worked on a couple non-national campaigns, actually) and someone tells me that a government lawyer from any country (not just Russia!) wants to meet with me to discuss their government’s support for my candidate, I’m going to RUN THE FUCK AWAY and almost certainly call the FBI within the hour. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/706 "2017-07-11T15:31:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Looks like this morning’s Fox News spin is: > “The person Trump Jr. spoke with has nothing to do with the Russian Government at all. It was all innocent. Nothing to see here. You can take her word for it.” Fredo posted the email chain (because reporters had it and were about to release it). The lawyer is specifically referred to in the email as a Russian government attorney. [x.com](https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr?s=09) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/707 "2017-07-11T15:33:43Z")
That’s utterly amazing that Don Jr. actually posted those emails. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/708 "2017-07-11T15:35:19Z")
Ok. What’s the angle here? On edit: [NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0) released them anyway. Now he’ll claim he had nothing to hide and prove it by saying he released them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/709 "2017-07-11T15:41:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not concluding that this is illegal, but WHAT THE FUCK?? If I were on a campaign (and I have worked on a couple non-national campaigns, actually) and someone tells me that a government lawyer from any country (not just Russia!) wants to meet with me to discuss their government’s support for my candidate, I’m going to RUN THE FUCK AWAY and almost certainly call the FBI within the hour. Hard to say for sure what you would do, because you’re not on a campaign and don’t know what’s SOP for campaigns. For example, [here’s a Politico article](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446) about DNC coordination with the Ukrainian government to get dirt on Trump and thus undermine his chances. The original allegations against Trump were that he colluded with the Russians to “hack” the election, in hacking DNC emails or the like. Speaking to people connected to foreign government about getting dirt on opponents is another matter entirely, and - quite possibly - not especially remarkable. That said, the statement in the email that there was a broader Russian government effort to help Trump may be pushing the envelope in that area. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/710 "2017-07-11T15:52:55Z")
We should rename this thread: “Trump Jr coordinates with Russians, according to Trump Jr.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/711 "2017-07-11T15:53:23Z")
Remember when the Trump administration assured us that they believed that Russians had no interest in helping the Trump campaign? These emails, if nothing else, prove that they were lying. The Trump campaign absolutely knew that the Russian government was trying to help their campaign. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/712 "2017-07-11T16:00:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s utterly amazing that Don Jr. actually posted those emails. Apparently he has retained the firm of Howard, Howard, and Fine as counsel. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/713 "2017-07-11T16:22:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hard to say for sure what you would do, because you’re not on a campaign and don’t know what’s SOP for campaigns. > > For example, [here’s a Politico article](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446) about DNC coordination with the Ukrainian government to get dirt on Trump and thus undermine his chances. > > The original allegations against Trump were that he colluded with the Russians to “hack” the election, in hacking DNC emails or the like. Speaking to people connected to foreign government about getting dirt on opponents is another matter entirely, and - quite possibly - not especially remarkable. > > That said, the statement in the email that there was a broader Russian government effort to help Trump may be pushing the envelope in that area. This strikes me as a pretty reasonable take. Though it’s worth observing that whether this information was connected to the hacking, and whether the email recipients knew or came to know that, is unclear right now. I think it’s also worth noting how they behaved. They lied in public about whether they knew Russia was helping Trump, which they knew to be the case at least as late as this email (and probably before, given how the email talks about the collaboration). If they thought it was totally normal, why lie? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/714 "2017-07-11T16:24:55Z")
I’m wondering if, after the G20 last week, Putin realized that the balance had shifted, that having Trump in the WH was _too_ destabilizing and he was enervating a bunch of countries which, up to now, have been content to sit on the sidelines. Realizing this, Putin cuts his losses and has these emails “leaked” to the NYTimes. Anyway, that’s my du juor conspiracy theory of the day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/715 "2017-07-11T16:26:04Z")
I like this quote from Randall Eliason from the WP: > [@](#): > > Conspiracies, by their nature, take place in secret. To break through that secrecy, prosecutors often rely on circumstantial evidence. The classic trial lawyer’s metaphor is that each such piece of evidence is a brick. No single event standing alone may prove the case. But when assembled together, those individual bricks may build a wall — a big, beautiful wall — that excludes any reasonable doubt about what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/716 "2017-07-11T16:29:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m wondering if, after the G20 last week, Putin realized that the balance had shifted, that having Trump in the WH was _too_ destabilizing and he was enervating a bunch of countries which, up to now, have been content to sit on the sidelines. > > Realizing this, Putin cuts his losses and has these emails “leaked” to the NYTimes. > > Anyway, that’s my du juor conspiracy theory of the day. 🙂 I think the more reasonable tin hat optic is that rather than being a Bond villain, Putin does it for the lols. Americans are rather easy to wind up. One guy tries to stuff an explosive in his shoe and we’re all taking our shoes off at airports until the end of time. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/717 "2017-07-11T16:33:17Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I think the more reasonable tin hat optic is that rather than being a Bond villain, Putin does it for the lols. Americans are rather easy to wind up. One guy tries to stuff an explosive in his shoe and we’re all taking our shoes off at airports until the end of time. Since Putin has been pursuing strategies of dezinformatisa and destabilization with the European countries on the exact same model as this, it is extremely silly to propose this as “lols” based on the americans. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/718 "2017-07-11T16:39:50Z")
C’mon you apologists, I’m waiting with bated breath to see how you’re going to try to spin this. Have you read the emails? Shall I provide you with a helpful link or two? [Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?mcubz=1) [Donald Trump Jr. releases email chain on his Russian meeting](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/11/politics/trump-jr-russia-lawyer-emails/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/719 "2017-07-11T16:40:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I think it’s also worth noting how they behaved. They lied in public about whether they knew Russia was helping Trump, which they knew to be the case at least as late as this email (and probably before, given how the email talks about the collaboration). If they thought it was totally normal, why lie? I don’t think Trump or the people connected to him have been noted for their integrity, on the whole. As Trump himself (IIRC) has observed, at this point he could eat a Russian salad and people would point to it as proof of his Russian connections. They may have thought it was SOP at the time they did it, but once the atmosphere shifted to extreme suspicion of any Russian connections, they went into denial mode. Personally my feeling is that it would be a lot smarter for them to just dump all the info that’s available out there in one shot, and stop the drip-drip of new stories keeping this in the headlines. But for some reason this type of approach tends to seem smartest to people who are not themselves in the cross-hairs, and those who are tend to try keeping a lid on it. You see it again and again. Must be human nature or something. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/720 "2017-07-11T16:41:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hard to say for sure what you would do, because you’re not on a campaign and don’t know what’s SOP for campaigns. No, I know what I would do. I told you. If I get fired by a wholly unethical campaign, then fuck em. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/721 "2017-07-11T16:44:00Z")
C’mon. They’re still busy moving the last set of goalposts. You expect that they’re prepared to dig them up and move them again? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/722 "2017-07-11T16:53:22Z")
Interesting timing that Trump’s [tweet](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/07/11/keith-olbermann-links-old-trump-tweet-to-sons-meeting-with-russ/23024658/) about Clinton’s emails came 10 minutes after this meeting ended. And [this speech](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3630521/Trump-promises-major-speech-Clintons-closes-GOP-primaries-blasts-Hillary-politics-personal-enrichment-totally-illegal-private-server.html) while the meeting was being scheduled (June 7) with promises of Clinton dirt to come. \*"Donald Trump turned the corner on a vicious presidential primary process Tuesday night, pledging to visit a new round of political horrors on Hillary and Bill Clinton. The Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting said that ‘probably Monday of next week’ he would deliver a ‘major speech’ featuring a discussion of ‘all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons.’ ‘I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting,’ he said, sporting an impish grin. ‘I wonder if the press wil want to atend. Who knows?’ ‘The Clintons have turned the politics of personal enrichment into an art form for themselves,’ he claimed on the night when the final gusher of GOP convention delegates hit his campaign."\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=37)