# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/743 "2017-07-11T17:36:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > It’s funny to see you guys get all excited, time after time. And then the football is yanked away. Again. You keep saying this over and over again while the mountains of evidence against Trump keep on getting higher and higher. Not sure you understand at all how this works to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/744 "2017-07-11T17:39:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Actually, [it’s illegal](https://transition.fec.gov/law/feca/feca.pdf): > At least, it’s illegal if said dirt is a “thing of value” which certainly seems to have been the belief of Trump Jr. Can you give me a cite of one case where information on the opponent’s criminal dealings has been deemed a “thing of value” and thus a campaign contribution? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/745 "2017-07-11T17:40:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There is nothing new. The info was supposedly about Russians funding the DNC and Hillary’s campaign, it was bait in order to get the Russian lawyer in to talk about some stuff she wanted to talk about, there was no information on criminal dealings of DNC or Hillary, so she was rebuffed. > > It’s funny to see you guys get all excited, time after time. And then the football is yanked away. Again. Surely you can do better than that, Lucy. You have to put the football down in the first place to yank it away. He said he didn’t know the info was coming from the Russian government. Oh, wait, he did know, and responded _enthusiastically_, to the point of negotiating a meeting and inviting Kushner and Manafort. He was told explicitly that she was a ‘Russian government attorney’ and that it was part of an effort by the Russian government to support Trump’s campaign. He was given a chain of people who were putting the effort into effect including a businessman with direct ties to Putin. It doesn’t matter whether anything came of the purported info or not, as Uday claims. Nevermind the other laws he may be liable for breaking. We’re starting to reach into treasonous territory now. Try again, that one didn’t even begin to whitewash it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/746 "2017-07-11T17:40:39Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There is nothing new. The info was supposedly about Russians funding the DNC and Hillary’s campaign, it was bait in order to get the Russian lawyer in to talk about some stuff she wanted to talk about, there was no information on criminal dealings of DNC or Hillary, so she was rebuffed. > > It’s funny to see you guys get all excited, time after time. And then the football is yanked away. Again. The football keeps not going through your personal goalposts because you’ve moved them several miles from where they started with “Trump had no involvement with Russia”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/747 "2017-07-11T17:54:03Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > If you mean “when they thought they were going to get information about Clinton’s and DNC’s criminal dealings with Russia, they were all for it” then yes, that’s it. A sting operation, then, was it? The Trump org, with their background and expertise in law enforcement, was just giving the FBI a helping hand to get the case rolling before they turned over the evidence? “No time for backup!” I’m going to need a Dramamine to handle this much spin. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/748 "2017-07-11T17:56:23Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > A sting operation, then, was it? The Trump org, with their background and expertise in law enforcement, was just giving the FBI a helping hand to get the case rolling before they turned over the evidence? “No time for backup!” No. They were eager, understandably, when someone told them they had information on DNC getting funding from Russia, to get such evidence. I am sure if they actually got it, they would not have just “given the FBI a helping hand” but would have publicized the hell out of it. Just like Hillary would have done if she got anything like that on RNC. All the protestations to the contrary on this thread notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/749 "2017-07-11T17:59:23Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Just like Hillary would have done if she got anything like that on RNC. All the protestations to the contrary on this thread notwithstanding. And if my aunt had testicles… ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/750 "2017-07-11T18:01:30Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Um, what? I have no idea what you are getting at here. Sorry. I was dashing off a post in a rush. I’m just flabbergasted by this development. The parts of the emails I quoted sound too perfect, like the emails were crafted to make sure the point was obvious that Trump Jr. knew he was supposed to be getting election help from Russia. The most likely scenario is that Trump and Goldstone really were that brazen, but it just kind of boggles my mind that you’d record your secret plan like that, and drop in lines that sound (to me, anyway), like “just remember, this is totally, totally wrong.” In that way, it recalls for me the purported National Guard memo that Dan Rather reported on in 2004 (IIRC). In that case, a forgery was probably passed to Rather and ended up discrediting him when he ran with it. But, that can’t really be what’s going on here, since if you’re trying to pull that trick, you release the forgery anonymously. So, we’re either dealing with stupid and brazen conspirators who lay everything out in emails, or there’s some crazy con going on that I can’t imagine. (The stuff about Redford and Newman was a reference to “The Sting”, where Redford and Newman run this elaborate con, which has a twist at the end – but wait! – that’s not the real twist!) Anyway, sorry for a confusing post. I’m 99% sure Trump and Goldstone are just idiots who recorded their conspiracy in email. But, it’s just a weird damn development. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/751 "2017-07-11T18:05:17Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > And if my aunt had testicles… …you could be sure Trump would make a grab for them, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/752 "2017-07-11T18:22:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Actually, [it’s illegal](https://transition.fec.gov/law/feca/feca.pdf) But if he didn’t actually receive anything, is it still illegal? Not so clear, I don’t think. Moreover, I’m not sure that statute can be constitutionally applied to valuable information as a First Amendment matter. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/753 "2017-07-11T18:33:09Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But if he didn’t actually receive anything, is it still illegal? Not so clear, I don’t think. > > Moreover, I’m not sure that statute can be constitutionally applied to valuable information as a First Amendment matter. First of all, where did Donnie think the information came from? Rainbow-riding unicorns? No, it came from the Russians. Russians do not act independently, any that interact with foreigners do so with permission from the Kremlin. How did he think the Russians got this info? Ebay? No, it was information stolen by spies. If you conspire to receive stolen espionage, you are a felon. It doesn’t matter if you didn’t complete the transaction, you tried to collude with spies from a hostile nation. Do you think if you got arrested trying to solicit a prostitute that your not consummating the deal and having coitus would get your charges dropped? Donnie is a felon. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/754 "2017-07-11T18:34:17Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Why on earth would Little Trump think Clinton or the DNC had “criminal dealings with Russia?” Because Big Turmp really does think Hillary is as crooked as he keeps saying. Because of he were in her position, he be using it to enrich himself, so of course everyone else would. He looks at the world through the reflective side of a two-way mirror. And if you think Little Trmup did this workout his daddy’s OK, I have a mostly functional New Jersey bridge to lease you. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/755 "2017-07-11T18:37:23Z")
So, the White House is about to [del]respond[/del] lie about Trump Jr’s emails. Trump will deny ever knowing about any of this. Which I think is beyond any plausible deniability. How couldn’t he possibly know, given the weight of everything behind it, and the people in his campaign involved, including his own son? They lie and lie and lie and lie, get caught every time, and still his supporters stand by him as if this time… this time he’s telling the truth. Dear god. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/756 "2017-07-11T18:39:51Z")
This piece on the [Lawfare blog](https://www.lawfareblog.com/wall-begins-crumble-notes-collusion) is worth a read. It discusses both the Peter Smith email story from the WSJ and this weekend’s DJTJ story. > [@](#): > > Notably, these stories are not “leaks”—that is, improper disclosures from investigators or congressional overseers. The first story is sourced to an individual involved in the effort that the story describes who independently sought out the Wall Street Journal to tell his tale, along with other non-government sources connected to the matter. The second story is sourced to individuals “briefed on” and “with knowledge” of the relevant material, including “three advisers to the White House,” who described the relevant information to the New York Times. Some of the story is sourced to private defense lawyers communicating with reporters in an effort to help their clients. > > And while the stories don’t—yet—show any actual collusive agreement or specific actions, they do show two separate incidents in which the Trump campaign or someone purporting to act on its behalf knowingly sought to engage Russian representatives in order to garner damaging information on Hillary Clinton. > > In other words, if the Trump campaign didn’t collude with the Russians, it wasn’t for lack of trying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/757 "2017-07-11T18:40:37Z")
A question which probably cannot be definitively answered. We know that the release of the DNC emails enraged the Bernie people as it revealed the extent of efforts to throttle his campaign. We know that some number swore mighty oaths not to vote for Hillary, even if her opponent were, as it turned out, Swamp Thing. As we know, this last election pivoted on a smattering of votes over five crucial states. (90,000, was it?). And, as I’ve mentioned, I couldn’t help but notice the abundance of “news feeds” on social media from respected news orgs that had not existed the day before. About how Hillary had kidnapped Bernie’s grandchildren…you know the drill. Classic _dezinformatsiya_. So, did the Russians do it? Did they get lucky, draw one card to an inside straight flush and hit? Keep in mind, there really wasn’t all that much in the DNC hacks except for the stuff about stiffing Bernie Bedhair. So, if the release of the hacks had an actual effect, that would be it. At least in theory, then, Putin may have tilted the election towards Trump. The numbers we don’t have and can’t get are how many Bernie people actually followed through on their threat to not vote for HRC, and how many were in those five crucial states? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/758 "2017-07-11T18:46:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Wow, that was certainly a different take on that article than I had. > > What I read was, the Dems were aware that an operation was being run against them, and they were trying to find out about it. > > I guess that’s incidentally ‘getting dirt’ on the people running the operation, but gimme a break. Ah, the old “_we’re_ just defending ourselves against _those_ guys” line … [Our guy] trying to uncover [their guy’s] dealings with Russia = good. [Their guy] trying to uncover [our guy’s] dealings with Russia = bad. Works for True Believers. Not for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/759 "2017-07-11T18:48:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A question which probably cannot be definitively answered. We know that the release of the DNC emails enraged the Bernie people as it revealed the extent of efforts to throttle his campaign. We know that some number swore mighty oaths not to vote for Hillary, even if her opponent were, as it turned out, Swamp Thing. > > As we know, this last election pivoted on a smattering of votes over five crucial states. (90,000, was it?). And, as I’ve mentioned, I couldn’t help but notice the abundance of “news feeds” on social media from respected news orgs that had not existed the day before. About how Hillary had kidnapped Bernie’s grandchildren…you know the drill. Classic _dezinformatsiya_. > > So, did the Russians do it? Did they get lucky, draw one card to an inside straight flush and hit? Keep in mind, there really wasn’t all that much in the DNC hacks except for the stuff about stiffing Bernie Bedhair. So, if the release of the hacks had an actual effect, that would be it. > > At least in theory, then, Putin may have tilted the election towards Trump. The numbers we don’t have and can’t get are how many Bernie people actually followed through on their threat to not vote for HRC, and how many were in those five crucial states? Hey hey hey!! Swamp Thing would make a fantastic President! ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/760 "2017-07-11T18:50:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > First of all, where did Donnie think the information came from? Rainbow-riding unicorns? No, it came from the Russians. Russians do not act independently, any that interact with foreigners do so with permission from the Kremlin. How did he think the Russians got this info? Ebay? No, it was information stolen by spies. Can you expand on it - why do you think information coming \*\*from Russians \*\*about money going to DNC \*\*from Russia \*\*would be “stolen by spies” and not, you know, retrieved from a filing cabinet and xeroxed? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/761 "2017-07-11T18:50:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Ah, the old “_we’re_ just defending ourselves against _those_ guys” line … > > [Our guy] trying to uncover [their guy’s] dealings with Russia = good. > > [Their guy] trying to uncover [our guy’s] dealings with Russia = bad. Ah, the old misdirection / projection tactic. > [@](#): > > Works for True Believers. Not for me. You sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/762 "2017-07-11T18:51:51Z")
Ah would at this point lahk to rescind ma offer of 'A piece of the action in this $100 bet as to whether a member of the Trump govt. will be indicted in relation to Russia." I also like to keep ma feathers numbered in, just such an emergency. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=39)