# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/823 "2017-07-12T00:22:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks! I don’t get the NYT. You can also go to any other news site, including, but not limited to, [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com), [Politico.com](http://Politico.com), [ABCNews.com](http://ABCNews.com), [NBCNews.com](http://NBCNews.com), [BBCNews.com](http://BBCNews.com), [Yahoo.com](http://Yahoo.com), [Buzzfeed.com](http://Buzzfeed.com), all of which have plenty of stories right above the fold. Hell, even Breitbart has stuff on this right on top. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/824 "2017-07-12T00:26:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks! I don’t get the NYT. The interesting part for me was the email that Trump Jr. received on June 3, 2016 explicitly said: "This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” And then he was invited to a meeting with a Russian lawyer. Which he went to. With Trump’s son in law. And campaign manager. Yet… yet… The Trump camp has steadfastly denied, denied, denied that there was any connection with their campaign and Russia, and that they had no knowledge, NONE that Russia was trying to support their campaign. Outright lies. About something that seems rather important - a hostile government trying to influence the federal election. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/825 "2017-07-12T00:30:04Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > You can also go to any other news site, including, but not limited to, [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com), [Politico.com](http://Politico.com), [ABCNews.com](http://ABCNews.com), [NBCNews.com](http://NBCNews.com), [BBCNews.com](http://BBCNews.com), [Yahoo.com](http://Yahoo.com), [Buzzfeed.com](http://Buzzfeed.com), all of which have plenty of stories right above the fold. Hell, even Breitbart has stuff on this right on top. Those are all the Lamestream Media. What about the real media like World Net Daily or National Enquirer? Let’s see… “Men in Black 20th anniversary” “Refugee infectious diseases spark alarm” See? There’s the real news, right there! ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/826 "2017-07-12T00:52:42Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > It doesn’t seem like a set-up to me at all (unless you mean setting Trump up for a blackmail/fall?). This all continues to paint a picture that makes so much sense when ilooking back on behaviors and things said from Trump, et al. > > It was a conspiracy to hack the vote, between Trump’s campaign and the Russians. At this point, it’s painfully obvious this happened, Trump was fully aware, and is and has been compromised by the Russians with this (and most assuredly more) information hanging over his orange head. Absolutely. More crimes will be revealed as we go forward, so this become impossible for all but die-hards to deny. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/827 "2017-07-12T01:04:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I haven’t been paying much attention to this story lately, but everyone seems very excited about it again. Can I get someone’s CliffsNotes? Is the impeachment back on? Hey, welcome back from wherever you were! So, you’re gonna want to just check in with whatever news source you feel comfortable with, hope to god it’s not some bullshit like Fox, and read up on the last few days of Trump’s #1 transparent son. That should catch you up just fine. (Hint: It’s got Russians in it! Who could have predicted!!) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/828 "2017-07-12T01:19:51Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Ooo, an opinion piece from Kayleigh McNany. Seems legit. > > Isn’t she the “journalist” who endorsed Donald Trump for president, and accused Barack Obama of shirking his duties as president after Daniel Pearl was beheaded in 2002? > > Hey, the Republicans have had Congress for many years now. Why don’t they start an investigation of Hillary Clinton? And took Hillary to task for ‘enabling’ Bubba’s womanizing. Og, what a hypocrite. I call her Kayleigh Mc-inane-y. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/829 "2017-07-12T01:45:23Z")
Is there any indication of how the NY Times got these emails? Who leaked this information would be very telling. I mean it’s a very different story if this was leaked by Kushner, Bannon or even Pence. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/830 "2017-07-12T01:53:10Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’m surprised so few people are picking up on what you did. > > Yes, the email from Goldstone was clearly designed _with the U.S. Code in mind_: > > [52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals](http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title52-section30121&num=0&edition=prelim) > > The emails: > > [Full text of the emails between Donald Trump Jr and Rob Goldstone | Donald Trump | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/11/donald-trump-jr-emails-full-text-russia-rob-goldstone) > > “Official documents” and “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump” and “the Russian government attorney” are designed to leave no doubt that Don Jr. knew he was being invited to receive information from not only a foreign national, but from _an official representative of an adversarial nation’s government_. (Whether the woman really was an official representative is immaterial. What matters is what Don. Jr. was told and that he agreed to the meeting.) > > “Would be very useful to your father” and “…support for Mr Trump” are designed to make clear that something of value—as per the U.S. Code subsection 30121–was being offered to Don Jr. and that if he took the meeting, he would be Agalarov doing so in order to receive something of value to his father’s campaign. > > We know that at the time these emails were sent, the Kremlin had little reason to believe that Trump Sr. would win the Presidency. But in accordance with their standard operating procedure, they found it worthwhile to acquire Don Jr. as an asset. > > Inviting him to violate US federal election laws—as these emails explicitly did—had the potential to give them operating control over Don Jr., given that if he bit, they would then have the power to expose his unlawful conduct. If Trump had lost, as expected, Don Jr. could have gone on to assist the Kremlin in material ways in their ongoing project of undermining US and other western democracies. > > (So, yeah: what you picked up on–the odd artificiality in the construction of Goldstone’s emails–_is_ there.) Thanks for the validation. I’m glad I’m not entirely [loony](http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/weirdalfoil_2322.jpg). Another possibility occurs to me. The Agalarov family and Trump family did various kinds of business together, including a partnership on a failed Trump Tower project in Moscow. But that doesn’t mean they continue to be allies. Aras Agalarov may have decided, for who-knows-what reason, to shank Trump. Maybe Agalarov was pissed about something that happened during the failed Trump Tower project or maybe he wants to eliminate Trump as future competition in the Russian real estate market, or whatever. So, anyway, in my fevered imagination, Agalarov, still thinking like everyone else that Trump was going to lose, figures he can snooker the Trump family into committing a crime. So he gets his lawyer friend to help craft an email that is obviously designed to tick all the boxes as **Sherrerd** notes. The lawyer sends soome text to Goldstone, who copies and pastes it into his email. And, as **Sherrerd** also notes, it doesn’t matter if the lawyer has any intention of delivering, or is even able to deliver. The email gets Trump on the hook either way. Had Trump lost as he should have in a just universe, Agalarov could torpedo him whenever he wanted. I think Trump did coordinate with the Russians in various ways, but that doesn’t mean he might not have been scammed in this particular case. Maybe Agalarov, knowing Trump’s eagerness to get some of that Vlad Putin love, figured he’d run a little side kompromat of his own. I’m probably making too much of a few words in the emails. I know it’s wild-assed speculation on my part. But, it just seems like an [orgy of evidence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0VQQYchHrw). ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/831 "2017-07-12T02:18:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > first it’s “never happened! Fake news!” > > then it’s “happened but it’s no big deal! Fake news!” > > then it’s “okay it happened and it’s not great but hillary did/would do it too! Fake news!” > > what’s the next iteration? “it happened on Obama’s watch! Connect the dots sheeple!” ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/832 "2017-07-12T02:44:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I haven’t been paying much attention to this story lately, but everyone seems very excited about it again. Can I get someone’s CliffsNotes? Is the impeachment back on? > **[We Now Have Proof of Trump’s Collusion With Russians](https://observer.com/2017/07/donald-trump-son-kremlin-putin-meetings/amp/)** > > As Winston Churchill famously said, it is the end of the beginning. "However, what’s far more important is the revelation that Don Jr. and company wanted to meet with her precisely because they knew of her official ties in Moscow. A follow-on report by the Times, which can be fairly termed a bombshell, makes clear that Team Trump sought to parley with Veselnitskaya because they believed she had incriminating information about Hillary’s Clinton’s ties to the Kremlin. They wanted what the Russian call kompromat on the Democrats—precisely what Russian hackers were in the process of stealing. " ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/833 "2017-07-12T02:48:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Those are all the Lamestream Media. What about the real media like World Net Daily or National Enquirer? > > Let’s see… “Men in Black 20th anniversary” > > “Refugee infectious diseases spark alarm” > > See? There’s the real news, right there! Maybe Alex Jones has it right, Trump Jr was just doing his job, trying to catch Russian spies. At any rate, once the non-lamestream media gets their marching orders and decides on a defense, okrahoma will be the first to inform us. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/834 "2017-07-12T03:04:24Z")
Trump hired loyal bulldog Marc Kasowitz to represent him in the Russia investigation. ProPublica [reports](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-russia-lawyer-marc-kasowitz-alcohol-security-clearance) today that Kasowitz doesn’t have a security clearance, has no plans to apply for a security clearance, and would probably have difficulty getting a security clearance due to a history of alcohol abuse and inappropriate workplace behavior. It’s unclear how effective Kasowitz can be in defending Trump without a clearance. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/835 "2017-07-12T03:16:49Z")
It’s like watching House of Cards, but instead of the Underwoods, it’s the Bluths. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/836 "2017-07-12T03:21:17Z")
With a cameo for Sen. John Blutarsky ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/837 "2017-07-12T03:39:51Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > It’s like watching House of Cards, but instead of the Underwoods, it’s the Bluths. Poor Tiffany is that girlfriend of George Michael’s that everyone ignores. (I want to say … “Ann?” Don’t bother correcting me, it’s not like I’ll remember her name later anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/838 "2017-07-12T03:52:22Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Poor Tiffany is that girlfriend of George Michael’s that everyone ignores. (I want to say … “Ann?” Don’t bother correcting me, it’s not like I’ll remember her name later anyway.) It’s going to turn out that Tiffany Trump was the mastermind behind the whole scheme all along. And after she’s found out, she’ll barricade herself in the Whitehouse, and then escape through the underground tunnels that were built after the War of 1812, by James Munroe. Secreted out of Washington DC by Trump loyalists, she and her army will put up a brave last stand in the mountains of West Virginia, culminating in the massacre at Blackwater Canyon. She’ll be identified though dental records, but rumours of her escape, and “sightings” will persist for years. Decades later, a cult will form around her and this last battle, and the Trumpist Christian Church will become the third most numerous Christian sect in the US by the 22nd century. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/839 "2017-07-12T03:57:18Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Trump hired loyal bulldog Marc Kasowitz to represent him in the Russia investigation. ProPublica [reports](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-russia-lawyer-marc-kasowitz-alcohol-security-clearance) today that Kasowitz doesn’t have a security clearance, has no plans to apply for a security clearance, and would probably have difficulty getting a security clearance due to a history of alcohol abuse and inappropriate workplace behavior. It’s unclear how effective Kasowitz can be in defending Trump without a clearance. Can’t Trump simply sign an executive order overriding the normal rules for security clearances and issue one to anyone he wants? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/840 "2017-07-12T12:25:35Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > **I know leftists don’t like actually putting money where their mouth is** but: I will make a bet with anyone for $100 that there was nothing criminal in this affair. Come on, you’re so excited about it. Take the bet. If, within 2 years, there is no indictment of Don Jr. for this - I win. Is 2 years good 'nuff? > [@Okrahoma](#): > > \*\*So - no one would put their money where their mouth is? > > How surprising.\*\* > [@Okrahoma](#): > > \*\* But no one is sure enough to bet. Pathetic.\*\* After so many posts about “leftists” being scared of putting one’s money where one’s mouth is, I would like to remind everyone that **Okrahoma** is slinking away from the bet that I offered, which I think is a quite a fair bet. He’s made a half dozen other posts in this thread since I offered the terms below, but ducking this issue? Pathetic. So one more time, **Okrahoma** , are you going to put your money where your mouth is? > [@Ravenman](#): > > How about this: $100 bet, if anyone other than Flynn who is associated with the Trump campaign or Trump Administration is indicted in the next 18 months for matters relating to the Russia investigation. > > Surely you HAVE to take this bet, given how sure you are that Trump has always done everything right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/841 "2017-07-12T12:40:24Z")
I’ll bet you, **Okrahoma** , that Trump won’t be in office on Jan 1, 2019, as long as you give me 100 to 1 odds – I’ll pony up $100 if he’s still in office, and if he’s not, you pay me $10,000. Let’s just see how certain you are that he’ll still be President by then? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/842 "2017-07-12T13:17:08Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Can’t Trump simply sign an executive order overriding the normal rules for security clearances and issue one to anyone he wants? He could just declassify any information his lawyer needs to know to defend him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=43)