# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1023 "2017-07-14T16:18:05Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Which, in itself, would be a problem because it was attended by a “former” Russian intelligence agent who lobbies to get rid of the Magnitsky Act, then the DNC was attacked on behalf of Russian intelligence five days later. To boil it down, this is pretty much the Watergate break in, except that instead of having their own unit of "[Plumbers",](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Plumbers)the Republicans were working with the KGB. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1024 "2017-07-14T16:20:41Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Doesn’t that make Jr. look even worse? I suppose the only way it doesn’t make him look bad is if you believe there is nothing wrong with meeting with Russians to obtain opposition information coming from the Russian government. Huh? Of course I don’t see anything wrong with a campaign meeting with Russians to obtain information on the opponent’s criminal misdeeds. Did I ever imply otherwise? Bricker has already explained, several times, that there is nothing illegal about it. What exacty is the problem? DNC “colluded” with the Ukrainians on supposed criminal misdeeds of Manafort - going as far as going to the Ukrainian embassy to meet with Ukrainian officials. Did you have a problem with that? The Steele’s “dossier” was information obtained by a foreign intelligence agent in “collusion” with Russians, lots of them supposedly intelligence operatives. It was funded by Fusion GPS, a Democrat-funded opposition research firm, paid with money from a Clinton backer. Nothing illegal in either of those cases. You may call it “unethical” but applying ethics standards to US campaigns is a silly exercise. Just take a look at Harry Reid’s accusations against Romney. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1025 "2017-07-14T16:23:19Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > … Of course I don’t see nothing wrong with a campaign meeting with Russians to obtain information on the opponent’s criminal misdeeds. … So you do see something wrong with it? The meeting about alleged criminal misdeeds? With the freaking Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1026 "2017-07-14T16:23:29Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > I suppose nothing, even Trump admitting that his entire campaign was a ploy to not get elected, would get his core supporters to admit that there’s something wrong with this administration. Trump could openly admit that he owes billions to Russian banks, so he is going to drop sanctions and do whatever Putin tells him to do. He could openly admit that he knew the Russians were hacking into DNC servers, that he knew that the Russians were making fake websites and that his team sent the Russians information to help them target social media attacks. And this would not make one bit of difference to the Trump core supporters. They would just bleat “NOT ILLEGAL!” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1027 "2017-07-14T16:27:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trump could openly admit that he owes billions to Russian banks, so he is going to drop sanctions and do whatever Putin tells him to do. He could openly admit that he knew the Russians were hacking into DNC servers, that he knew that the Russians were making fake websites and that his team sent the Russians information to help them target social media attacks. You know who else owed billions to Russian banks, opposed Russian sanctions, was the real Russian puppet, knew about Russians hacking into DNC servers, knew about fake websites, and sent information to the Russians? Crooked Hillary Clinton. She also actually carried out the Benghazi attacks, faked the moon landing, and shot Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1028 "2017-07-14T16:28:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No, I find nothing suspicious at all. There were literally hundreds if not thousands of meetings, and this was a dud, which is probably why it was not immediately remembered. If, as promised, the lawyer was bringing proof, from Russians, that they were funding DNC and Hillary, it would have been a success. A smashing success, actually. And if you substitute Hillary or Obama’s name in place - how would you feel then? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1029 "2017-07-14T16:31:41Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Burning a hole so badly that you haven’t followed up on my acceptance of it? OK \*\*Bricker \*\*agreed to act as escrow on our bet. How exactly would you like to do that? We can both send cash to Bricker, or post-dated checks written to Bricker. $100 from you. $500 from me. Either way - cash or check - is fine with me. Terms: if on Jan 1, 2019, Trump is still President, I win and Bricker sends me $600. If he was removed from Presidency or resigned, you win and Bricker sends you $600. If Trump dies in office, the bet is off. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1030 "2017-07-14T16:32:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > DNC “colluded” with the Ukrainians on supposed criminal misdeeds of Manafort - going as far as going to the Ukrainian embassy to meet with Ukrainian officials. Did you have a problem with that? Cite that the DNC did what you accuse them of? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1031 "2017-07-14T16:33:02Z")
> [@simster](#): > > And if you substitute Hillary or Obama’s name in place - how would you feel then? Same. See just a few posts [above](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20344864&postcount=1023). ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1032 "2017-07-14T16:35:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Cite that the DNC did what you accuse them of? [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446) ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1033 "2017-07-14T16:40:14Z")
How’s [this](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pelosi-vicente-fox-plot-to-defeat-trump-mexican-calls-trump-voters-lazy-drunks/article/2590642): - is this “colluding” with foreigners to “meddle” in the United States election? I mean: "[Vicente Fox] met with Pelosi at the airport in Mexico City Sunday and discussed ways he can help convince Latin American immigrants in the United States to reject Trump. … discussed ways he can help convince Latin American immigrants in the United States to reject Trump.". ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1034 "2017-07-14T16:47:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > How’s [this](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pelosi-vicente-fox-plot-to-defeat-trump-mexican-calls-trump-voters-lazy-drunks/article/2590642): - is this “colluding” with foreigners to “meddle” in the United States election? > > I mean: "[Vicente Fox] met with Pelosi at the airport in Mexico City Sunday and discussed ways he can help convince Latin American immigrants in the United States to reject Trump. > > … discussed ways he can help convince Latin American immigrants in the United States to reject Trump.". Trump isn’t currently running an election campaign ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1035 "2017-07-14T16:50:47Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > How’s [this](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pelosi-vicente-fox-plot-to-defeat-trump-mexican-calls-trump-voters-lazy-drunks/article/2590642): - is this “colluding” with foreigners to “meddle” in the United States election? > > I mean: "[Vicente Fox] met with Pelosi at the airport in Mexico City Sunday and discussed ways he can help convince Latin American immigrants in the United States to reject Trump. > > … discussed ways he can help convince Latin American immigrants in the United States to reject Trump.". Yes, all the examples you are providing are bad and don’t justify Jr.'s meeting. And you might be able to argue that the people involved didn’t know it was immoral or illegal (or not illegal at all), but you can’t justify the lies or the coverups. What was the sequence? - I had no meetings with Russians (lie or fogot) - I met with Russians, but forgot (lie or really did forget) - The topic of the meeting was adoptions (lie or truth) - The initial contact said the meeting was to offer info on Hillary, but the meeting turned out to be about adoptions and we bailed after 20 minutes. (Truth about Hillary, lie or truth about adoptions?) I’m pretty sure the sequence has not played out. I am doubting if adoptions was the topic. “They did bad things so I can do bad things too” is not a sound moral position. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1036 "2017-07-14T16:52:32Z")
The lobbyist and possible former counterintelligence officer who met with Trump Jr. has [spoken to the AP](https://www.apnews.com/dceed1008d8f45afb314aca65797762a/Russian-American-lobbyist-says-he-was-in-Trump-son's-meeting). Some excerpts (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > In his first public interview about the meeting, Akhmetshin said he accompanied Veselnitskaya to Trump Tower where they met an interpreter who participated in the meeting. > > \ > > During the meeting, Akhmetshin said Veselnitskaya presented the Trump associates with details of what she believed were illicit funds that had been funneled to the Democratic National Committee. And she suggested that making the information public could help the Trump campaign. > > \ > > Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and current White House senior adviser, and then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort also attended the meeting. Akhmetshin said he recognized Kushner and Trump Jr. He also said he recognized Manafort because they worked in “adjacent political circles” but never together. > > **He said there were others in the room but he didn’t know them. Publicist Rob Goldstone, who brokered the meeting via email with Trump Jr., has told the AP that he also participated in the meeting**. > > \ > > Akhmetshin said the attorney brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed her claims about the contributions to the Democratic National Committee. > > He said he does not know if they were provided by the Russian government, and he said he thinks she left the materials with the Trump associates. It was unclear if she handed the documents to anyone in the room or simply left them behind. We started at four attendees, then five, now at least six (Goldstone, plus “others” unknown to Akhmetshin). And we have documents possibly being passed. It sure would be nice to have those made public. And, at no point did anyone in the room think, “Uh, maybe we should involve the FBI in this? Foreign citizens are alleging illegal campaign contributions. We should report this to the authorities.” I’m not a politician, but I think if someone presented me evidence of a major crime, I’d probably realize that I should report it. Would failure to report this be a crime? Honest question. Assuming the lawyer passed documents with evidence of illegal campaign contributions, did anyone in the room have a legal obligation to turn it over to the FBI or other authorities? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1037 "2017-07-14T16:55:42Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I find your responses in this thread both frustrating and bewildering. Trump and people close to trump have repeatedly lied about who they’ve met, and continue to lie about who they’ve met. They repeatedly fail to disclose these individuals on incredibly important security paperwork. They’re STILL trying to hide who they’ve met. As these revelations come out, they’ve changed their stories time and again. If it’s no big deal, why are they lying so much? > > You might feel compelled to respond to each point, line by line, but I’d ask you to consider answering these questions instead: are you 100% okay with everything that’s come out about this story? Do you find nothing suspicious about the president and people close to the president’s behavior as it pertains to these secret meetings? Is there any revelation that would make you say “this might be a bad thing”? Okra might get upset if he were to find out that Trump was actually a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1038 "2017-07-14T16:56:37Z")
[Good column by Charles Krauthammer.](http://nationalpost.com/opinion/charles-krauthammer-with-collusion-shown-trump-apologists-now-pathetically-claim-russian-collusion-is-no-big-deal/wcm/f2a67131-049e-443a-9d98-50fd7e7aeb5b) > [@](#): > > This defence (by Trump apologists) is pathetic for two reasons. First, have the Trumpites not been telling us for six months that no collusion ever happened? And now they say: Sure it happened. So what? Everyone does it. > > What’s left of your credibility when you make such a casual about-face? > [@](#): > > Second, **no, not everyone does** it. It’s one thing to be open to opposition research dug up in Indiana. But not dirt from Russia, a hostile foreign power that has repeatedly invaded its neighbours (Georgia, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine), that buzzes our planes and ships in international waters, that opposes our every move and objective around the globe. > [@](#): > > There is no statute against helping a foreign hostile power meddle in an American election. What Donald Jr.—and Kushner and Manafort—did may not be criminal. But it is not merely stupid. **It is also deeply wrong, a fundamental violation of any code of civic honour**. And this last part is precisely where we part ways with the Trump Apologists. They see nothing wrong here. Their moral and ethical code is a blank void, an empty dark place filled with nothingness. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1039 "2017-07-14T16:58:41Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > “They did bad things so I can do bad things too” is not a sound moral position. You’ve got to admit it’s a step of from the previous attempt, which was “I did bad things but they probably would have done the same bad things, so it’s a wash” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1040 "2017-07-14T16:59:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446) That doesn’t say that any DNC staffer met with or directed anyone to meet with Ukrainians. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1041 "2017-07-14T17:05:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [Good column by Charles Krauthammer.](http://nationalpost.com/opinion/charles-krauthammer-with-collusion-shown-trump-apologists-now-pathetically-claim-russian-collusion-is-no-big-deal/wcm/f2a67131-049e-443a-9d98-50fd7e7aeb5b) > > And this last part is precisely where we part ways with the Trump Apologists. They see nothing wrong here. Their moral and ethical code is a blank void, an empty dark place filled with nothingness. Dear God, we’ve reached a point where Charles Krauthammer is talking sense. Bloomberg has an [article](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-14/no-one-else-would-take-the-russian-meeting)quoting people of both parties saying, “No one who knew what they were doing would take that meeting.” ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1042 "2017-07-14T17:08:09Z")
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