# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1083 "2017-07-14T19:48:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You’re both assuming that the meeting can be attributed solely to ‘political speech.’ The constantly-changing details, lies and stories about the meeting aside, I’m not even close to buying that line of argument. Sorry, but no way. If it turns out they were plotting a murder then yes it’s a different situation but all the legal talky talk has been about whether the meeting violated election laws. I remain leaning towards Bricker’s reasoning concerning the info we have so far from jr’s statements and emails. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1084 "2017-07-14T19:49:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I am shocked that a Russian with Kremlin ties might misrepresent themselves in dealing with pop music producers seeking to arrange meetings to meddle in American politics! I’m so shocked that my monocle just fell out! Think! Is there any other explanation for Nickleback? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1085 "2017-07-14T19:50:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > ETA: your post really could use a footnote that “Russian Crown Prosecutor” isn’t a real position. Why? That’s just the British translation of “Russian government lawyer”. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1086 "2017-07-14T19:51:11Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Isn’t she that Russian Crown Prosecutor? Why would a Russian Crown Prosecutor be acting as a defense attorney for a real estate company in a DOJ case? Most strange. No, it is a bit confusing though. The emails that DJ released talked about a crown prosecutor, and that the information was coming from this person, not that the person that donnie was going to meet with was a crown prosecutor, but instead, that she was a lawyer that was working for the russian govt. There is also the fact that the person who wrote the emails to little don was in britian, where they have crown prosecutors, like we have district attorneys. In Russia, they do not actually have crown prosecutors, they are called “state prosecutors”, or more precisely, they are “государственный прокурор”. So this woman who is a defense attorney for the real estate agency is a lawyer, not a prosecutor. She is also the one who was set up for the meeting with President WTF’s spawnling. I hope this clears up your confusion. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1087 "2017-07-14T19:53:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [House Democrats want to know why a major Russian money-laundering case was abruptly settled](http://www.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7) > > Drip. > The name Natalia Veselnitskaya should be familiar. Its gonna be the money. The political shit he can squirm out of, but the money always leave fingerprints, especially big hulking gobs of the shit. And by an odd coincidence, Mr Mueller has staffed up some money-laundering sleuths for ferreting. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1088 "2017-07-14T19:56:39Z")
In case anybody else was wondering about WTF a “crown prosecutor” means in Russia… > **[What the Heck Is a Russian 'Crown Prosecutor'?](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/russian-crown-prosecutor/533295/)** > > Technically, there’s no such position. But the man who holds the office’s nearest equivalent in Russia is a Putin loyalist of long standing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1089 "2017-07-14T19:58:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, it is a bit confusing though. > > The emails that DJ released talked about a crown prosecutor, and that the information was coming from this person, not that the person that donnie was going to meet with was a crown prosecutor, but instead, that she was a lawyer that was working for the russian govt. > > There is also the fact that the person who wrote the emails to little don was in britian, where they have crown prosecutors, like we have district attorneys. In Russia, they do not actually have crown prosecutors, they are called “state prosecutors”, or more precisely, they are “государственный прокурор”. > > So this woman who is a defense attorney for the real estate agency is a lawyer, not a prosecutor. She is also the one who was set up for the meeting with President WTF’s spawnling. > > I hope this clears up your confusion. And how do you know she was working for the government? A very reasonable hypothesis is that she was working for the real estate company all along and made the meeting to exchange Hillary dirt for dropping the money laundering suit. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1090 "2017-07-14T20:05:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And how do you know she was working for the government? A very reasonable hypothesis is that she was working for the real estate company all along and made the meeting to exchange Hillary dirt for dropping the money laundering suit. There are no independent actors in Russia. Anyone you’re going to talk to is going to have ties to the Kremlin. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1091 "2017-07-14T20:08:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And how do you know she was working for the government? A very reasonable hypothesis is that she was working for the real estate company all along and made the meeting to exchange Hillary dirt for dropping the money laundering suit. Well, Don Trump Jr. would have been under the assumption that she was working for the government, since his buddy Goldstone told him so in an email: > [@](#): > > On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Rob Goldstone wrote: > Don > Hope all is well > Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1092 "2017-07-14T20:09:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And how do you know she was working for the government? A very reasonable hypothesis is that she was working for the real estate company all along and made the meeting to exchange Hillary dirt for dropping the money laundering suit. I don’t, but son of orange would have every reason to think so, having read the email that said she was an an attorney for the russian govt. Goldstone may very well have lied in the email that he sent, but that wouldn’t change, in any way, that she is not a Crown Prosecutor, as you were under the impression of. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1093 "2017-07-14T20:13:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well, Don Trump Jr. would have been under the assumption that she was working for the government, since his buddy Goldstone told him so in an email: But you don’t get it! Donald Jr. was playing 64 dimensional chess, because he knew that she was not actually a Russian government lawyer, even though he [says he didn’t know her name prior to the meeting.](https://twitter.com/ABC/status/884151389429145602) It’s becoming more and more obvious that Donald Jr. has supernatural powers to both know and not know things at the same time. A quantum idiot, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1094 "2017-07-14T20:32:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t, […] Then why did you make that exact assertion? Here, let me remind you > [@](#): > > but instead, that she was a lawyer that was working for the russian govt. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1095 "2017-07-14T20:37:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But you don’t get it! Donald Jr. was playing 64 dimensional chess, because he knew that she was not actually a Russian government lawyer, even though he [says he didn’t know her name prior to the meeting.](https://twitter.com/ABC/status/884151389429145602) > > It’s becoming more and more obvious that Donald Jr. has supernatural powers to both know and not know things at the same time. A quantum idiot, as it were. That’s ‘quantum idiot savante’ to _ **you** _, Buddy! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1096 "2017-07-14T20:49:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Then why did you make that exact assertion? Here, let me remind you > > 😕 [clap clap clap clap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNRvKviXbU0) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1097 "2017-07-14T20:49:56Z")
[According](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trump-jrs-russia-meeting-sure-sounds-like-a-russian-intelligence-operation/2017/07/14/5f7f3dfe-6762-11e7-9928-22d00a47778f_story.html?utm_term=.c35c694dede0) to a guy who seems to know what he’s talking about\*: > [@](#): > > Everything we know about the meeting — from whom it involved to how it was set up to how it unfolded — is in line with what intelligence analysts would expect an overture in a Russian influence operation to look like. It bears all the hallmarks of a professionally planned, carefully orchestrated intelligence soft pitch designed to gauge receptivity, while leaving room for plausible deniability in case the approach is rejected. And the Trump campaign’s willingness to take the meeting — and, more important, its failure to report the episode to U.S. authorities — may have been exactly the green light Russia was looking for to launch a more aggressive phase of intervention in the U.S. election campaign. > > \ > > From the Russian perspective, the fact that Trump Jr. agreed to the meeting would have been the first promising sign. That veteran political operative Paul Manafort and senior adviser Jared Kushner showed up with him would have furthered the impression that there was strong interest in Russian assistance (and vulnerability to compromise) on the part of the campaign. But, according to standard espionage tradecraft, the most notable achievement of this encounter lay in the campaign’s failure to report it to the appropriate U.S. authorities — as Russia would have known when there was no immediate, dramatic increase in U.S. counterintelligence scrutiny of its election-related operations. > > \ > > Russia also would have wanted an implicit if not explicit agreement that intelligence assistance would be rewarded by a grateful Trump administration willing to relieve sanctions and embark on a more constructive relationship. The president presumably would not be nearly as willing to shift the long-standing, hard-line U.S. approach toward Russia — or its position on Ukraine, NATO and other issues — if he didn’t have a full appreciation for the Russian contribution to his election victory. > > And after Russia’s overtures to the Trump campaign and the Trump campaign’s public denials that it had ever interacted with Russians, Vladimir Putin may have had the kompromat he needed to indirectly influence the Republican Party (such as the GOP platform on Ukraine) and Trump if he made it to the White House. The worst outcome would be that Trump would lose the election and, as a billionaire with global interests, still be a very useful ally for Putin. \*From the byline: Rolf Mowatt-Larssen is the director of the Intelligence and Defense Project at Harvard’s Belfer Center. He served for three years as director of intelligence and counterintelligence at the Department of Energy and for 23 years as a CIA intelligence officer in domestic and international posts. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1098 "2017-07-14T20:51:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Then why did you make that exact assertion? Here, let me remind you > > 😕 Right, and that was in direct reference to the emails received by the little Con, wherein, it stated explicitly, “Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.” If you read what I wrote, in it’s entirety, “The emails that DJ released talked about a crown prosecutor, and that the information was coming from this person, not that the person that donnie was going to meet with was a crown prosecutor, but instead, that she was a lawyer that was working for the russian govt.” you would see that my statement referenced the assertions made in the emails, not assertions that I am making, personally. This is why context is so very important. When you take just a single phrase out of a larger sentence, it can change the meaning, sometimes drastically. Some people do this with the intent of changing the meaning, like when they harped on Obama’s “You didn’t build that.”, or Clinton’s “We’re going to be putting a lot of coal workers out of jobs” (paraphrased on that last one.) where just that one part almost reverses the meaning of the whole phrase. So, that’s another reason why, in open, honest, and level debate, it is important not to accidently do the same thing, else, people may think that you are not being on the level yourself. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1099 "2017-07-14T20:55:12Z")
So give me a little extra context. Two days ago, before this DOJ money laundering story, how convinced were you that this lady was either a State Prosecutor or a Government Attorney? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1100 "2017-07-14T21:09:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So give me a little extra context. Two days ago, before this DOJ money laundering story, how convinced were you that this lady was either a State Prosecutor or a Government Attorney? I knew for a fact that this person was not a state prosecutor, as the state prosecutor (“Crown prosecutor”) in the email is a different entity than the lawyer referenced in the email just from reading the email chain. The email references the “Crown prosecutor” who has obtained the info, and a “Russian government attorney” who was going to be delivering the info in a meeting. I was never under the impression that these were one and the same. I take it by how you keep getting stuck on this point that you did? I was also never under the impression that this person was a government attorney, in that she was employed directly by the govt, because I read the context around her in the same session as reading about pj’s email chain. I did not know, nor do I know now, whether she was representing the russian govt for this meeting, but I do know that that was the claim made in the email that son of chump replied with “I love it”, so there is plenty of reason to believe that dumber trumper thought so. That is info that may come out with the investigation, or it may not, but it does not matter, all that matters is what the recipient of the info did with it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1101 "2017-07-14T21:09:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So give me a little extra context. Two days ago, before this DOJ money laundering story, how convinced were you that this lady was either a State Prosecutor or a Government Attorney? Nobody ever said she was a state prosecutor (or a crown prosecutor). You are the only, only, only one who appears confused about this. Mr. Goldstone said in his email to Junior that he was setting up a meeting with “The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday”. This was written in the email to Donnie Jr. She has subsequently claimed not to be a “government attorney”. But it is very, very clear that she is well connected in Russian government circles. I don’t know why you are continuing this line of enquiry, and continuing to be “confused”, unless it is simply for more amusement and golf claps. If so, please discontinue - this is not the pit. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1102 "2017-07-14T21:13:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > . > I did not know, nor do I know now, whether she was representing the russian govt for this meeting, but I do know that that was the claim made in the email that son of chump replied with “I love it”, so there is plenty of reason to believe that dumber trumper thought so. That is info that may come out with the investigation, or it may not, but it does not matter, all that matters is what the recipient of the info did with it. And why does it matter if jr. thought it was a government employee? If he thought he was meeting with some oligarch’s secretary that would have made some difference to anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=56)