# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1143 "2017-07-15T03:30:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ok, so - Goldstone is lying, right? So is Don Jr. > > Let’s see what the third eyewitness is saying - the registered Washington lobbyist who was in the room: > > [Russian-American lobbyist joined Trump's son's meeting, too | AP News](https://apnews.com/dceed1008d8f45afb314aca65797762a) > > "In a statement Sunday, Trump Jr. said the attorney had said she had information that people tied to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Clinton, a description that Akhmetshin backed up in his interview with the AP. > … > Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to the Trump associates and suggested that making the information public could help the campaign, he said. > > “This could be a good issue to expose how the DNC is accepting bad money,” Akhmetshin recalled her saying. > > Trump Jr. asked the attorney if she had sufficient evidence to back up her claims, including whether she could demonstrate the flow of the money. But Veselnitskaya said the Trump campaign would need to research it more. After that, Trump Jr. lost interest, according to Akhmetshin. > > “They couldn’t wait for the meeting to end,” he said." > > So - compared to three eyewitness accounts, what opposing evidence do you have? Don Jr. has been proven to have lied by his own words and the evidence we already have – both by omission and commission. Witness one impeached. Veselnitskaya claimed that she gave Junior no info on Clinton. She also omitted the presence of Akhmetshin and possibly two more people. Oddly enough, both Russians are working to repeal an act that is very much against the interests of the Russian government. Both, of course, deny any connection to the government or intel services. Never heard of 'em. (Because lawyers and possible intel agents never lie about their connections.) Uh-huh. Funny how that works out. Funnier how you’re so willing to believe all of them: a known liar and two Russians who have every motivation to lie about their possible connections. ETA: Bah…ninja’ed on pretty much everything. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1144 "2017-07-15T03:38:22Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Because the Russian government wasn’t. The “Russian lawyer”, whose connections to Kremlin are most likely imaginary, was using the story that she had information from Russians about DNC and Hillary’s crimes as bait in order to get a meeting and talk about something else. She didn’t have the information. > > You may call that “the Russian government WAS trying to help”. But only if you twist yourself into a pretzel. First, we have at least [one accounting](http://nypost.com/2017/07/14/lawyer-who-met-with-trump-brought-dnc-related-documents/) where there was material exchanged. Second, why would she go through all that trouble, call in those favors to emin, goldstone, and whomever else, to get a sit down with a nominee’s son? That sounds like a lot of big asks (don’t forget, this at a very busy part of the campaign) to get in a room with a long shot, just to pull a bait and switch. Didn’t she think that would piss them off instead of warming to the cause? I, personally, think it is more likely the meeting was exactly as described in the email. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1145 "2017-07-15T03:41:10Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > I, personally, think it is more likely the meeting was exactly as described in the email. You think that she provided the “incriminating information” on transfers of Russian money to DNC and Hillary? And you think the Trump campaign sat on that information? ---
**Author:** ![Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogantly_Ignorant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1146 "2017-07-15T03:57:07Z")
> [@](#): > > You may call that “the Russian government WAS trying to help”. But only if you twist yourself into a pretzel. So, the part of the email where Goldstone explicitly stated this was part of the Russian government’s support of Trump, just flew over Trump Jr.'s head? Donnie Jr. said the Russian government wasn’t trying to help Trump. There’s an email where he’s expressly told that the Russians are supporting them. Also, you’re relying on Donnie Jr. and associates telling the truth about this meeting, when throughout this entire saga they’ve lied (either directly or by omission) about it. Why do you think they got nothing (especially considering the suspicious timeline, which I’m sure you’ll just hand wave away) out of the meeting? Because they said so? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1147 "2017-07-15T03:58:08Z")
I think that you should audition for Cirque de Soleil with your ability to contort yourself into these asinine defenses of the Trump group. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1148 "2017-07-15T04:22:14Z")
> [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](#): > > So, the part of the email where Goldstone explicitly stated this was part of the Russian government’s support of Trump, just flew over Trump Jr.'s head? Donnie Jr. said the Russian government wasn’t trying to help Trump. There’s an email where he’s expressly told that the Russians are supporting them. … and it turned out the Russians weren’t trying to help and the “incriminating information” that was presented was bunk. That is why if Don Jr. said the Russian government wasn’t trying to help Trump (again, cite?) - he would have been absolutely correct. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1149 "2017-07-15T04:27:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > … and it turned out the Russians weren’t trying to help and the “incriminating information” that was presented was bunk. So said three witnesses who have a clear interest in making it look that way, yes. _Obviously_ all three of them couldn’t possibly be lying. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogantly_Ignorant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1150 "2017-07-15T05:32:33Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > **… and it turned out the Russians weren’t trying to help and the “incriminating information” that was presented was bunk.** > > That is why if Don Jr. said the Russian government wasn’t trying to help Trump (again, cite?) - he would have been absolutely correct. Which is based off he accounts with a vested interest in lying and who have already done so. I prefer to look at what we actually verifiably KNOW. From the emails, we know Trump Jr. thought he was meeting with a Russian government attorney, in conjunction with Russia supporting Trump, who was going to give him dirt on Hillary. You may be willing to believe people with a penchant for lying, but I’m going to try to be a little more discerning. Cite: [https://youtu.be/aiEGEGcokUc](https://youtu.be/aiEGEGcokUc) Also, I have no idea why you said “again, cite” when you never asked me for one in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1151 "2017-07-15T05:47:56Z")
Well, we know that Trump junior is, just like his dear old dad, genetically predispositioned to lie about anything and everything. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1152 "2017-07-15T08:38:40Z")
Would someone kindly provide a link or series of links to the thread(s) where it is established that it’s perfectly okay for a foreign government to help a candidate’s campaign in any capacity? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1153 "2017-07-15T09:02:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Would someone kindly provide a link or series of links to the thread(s) where it is established that it’s perfectly okay for a foreign government to help a candidate’s campaign in any capacity? If the SDMB existed at all during the Bill Clinton presidency, there may have been. ---
**Author:** ![Trafalgar\_Laura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trafalgar_laura/32/2907_2.png) [@Trafalgar\_Laura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trafalgar_Laura)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1154 "2017-07-15T09:51:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If the SDMB existed at all during the Bill Clinton presidency, there may have been. I’m interested in this; could you expand? (Disclaimer: I just want to know the reason for this comment, I will not engage in a long debate about it one way or the other. Expansion will get a thanks.) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1155 "2017-07-15T12:23:50Z")
**Okrahoma** , there’s one point I keep getting hung up on, and I think you do, too, from the other side of the argument: I don’t want to suggest that I’m speaking for you, so please correct me if I get it wrong. You seem to be saying that, since Junior wasn’t able to acquire any damaging info on Clinton, that there was, essentially, no harm/no foul. Am I correct on that? Because whether he got dirt on her is immaterial. He _believed_ that he would. His intent was to acquire harmful info. That’s more important than if he actually succeeded in his attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1156 "2017-07-15T13:02:51Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > You seem to be saying that, since Junior wasn’t able to acquire any damaging info on Clinton, that there was, essentially, no harm/no foul. > > Am I correct on that? > > Because whether he got dirt on her is immaterial. He _believed_ that he would. His intent was to acquire harmful info. That’s more important than if he actually succeeded in his attempt. His intent was to acquire info on criminal misdeeds of Hillary or DNC. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Neither does the law. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1157 "2017-07-15T13:09:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > His intent was to acquire info on criminal misdeeds of Hillary or DNC. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Neither does the law. Your certainty is hilarious. The law is still looking into this matter. We probably won’t have all the answers for months, if not more, and yet you are so certain right now that everything is just perfectly fine. It’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1158 "2017-07-15T13:10:25Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > His intent was to acquire info on criminal misdeeds of Hillary or DNC. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Neither does the law. So if it was Chelsea Clinton sitting down with these people to get dirt on Trump, you would be passionately defending the Clintons? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1159 "2017-07-15T14:26:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Agreed to what? Cash or checks? Electronically would require all 3 of us to have Paypal accts or the equivalent and I am not sure we do. Agreed to the terms of the bet. However you want to do it. Either broker it or stop claiming that no one was willing to take you up on it. Either way, I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Casaubon\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Casaubon\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casaubon_1)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1160 "2017-07-15T14:29:49Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > His intent was to acquire info on criminal misdeeds of Hillary or DNC. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Neither does the law. The right thing to do would’ve obviously been to inform the FBI of the offer and work with them to uncover both what the Russians did and potential criminal misdeeds of Hillary. When an adversary government offers to support you, you tell the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1161 "2017-07-15T14:32:21Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > **Okrahoma** , there’s one point I keep getting hung up on, and I think you do, too, from the other side of the argument: > > I don’t want to suggest that I’m speaking for you, so please correct me if I get it wrong. > > You seem to be saying that, since Junior wasn’t able to acquire any damaging info on Clinton, that there was, essentially, no harm/no foul. > > Am I correct on that? > > Because whether he got dirt on her is immaterial. He _believed_ that he would. His intent was to acquire harmful info. That’s more important than if he actually succeeded in his attempt. Same old arguments. Nothing to see here, but even if there is, it’s not illegal. So just stop wasting time and taxpayer dollars on investigating it. We need to be concerned about more important things like invading voters’ privacy to gain Republican advantage in future elections! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1162 "2017-07-15T15:18:49Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > His intent was to acquire info on criminal misdeeds of Hillary or DNC. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Neither does the law. Well, the law is far from settled on this issue. But I thank you for answering my question succinctly and promptly. Even if there’s no criminality in his actions, it doesn’t look good. A lot of times with situations like this, there doesn’t have to be an impropriety. There just has to be the appearance of impropriety. Much like the Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch. Everyone on either side of that meeting looks shady. Lynch herself said that the meeting was innocent, and they only discussed grandchildren and golf and other mundane things. But she also said that the email controversy didn’t come up, but she knew that people wouldn’t see it that way. It’s not an exact parallel, but there are similarities. Did you (and I ask this respectfully) believe Lynch that the meeting was innocent, and didn’t involve discussion of the emails, or the investigation into Hillary? Or was it a case of those lying, scheming Clintons doing something underhanded? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=59)