# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1223 "2017-07-16T00:06:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … There are meetings I had last week where I probably wouldn’t get all the attendees right if you asked me about them. … This is… You… You are kidding here, right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1224 "2017-07-16T00:14:27Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > This is… > You… > You are kidding here, right? Yes and no. I was exaggerating a bit when I referred to present day as I don’t do a lot of meetings in my current work. But when I worked in corporate America? Absolutely. I spent 90% of my time in meetings and the workday was a big blur of going to one meeting after another. Last week was ancient history. Now, let’s be clear. I’m not saying there is no meeting that I could remember everyone from, but there certainly would have been some meetings like that. Anyway, this is a big deal right now and the investigation is going to bring to light all sorts of things. What DTJ told Hannity in an interview is unlikely to be of any import a few months from now. Other stuff will be, for sure. But that Hannity stuff is mostly fluff. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1225 "2017-07-16T00:20:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes and no. I was exaggerating a bit when I referred to present day as I don’t do a lot of meetings in my current work. But when I worked in corporate America? Absolutely. I spent 90% of my time in meetings and the workday was a big blur of going to one meeting after another. Last week was ancient history. I can certainly see in a drone-like setting like Corporate America, a lot of people are something like zombies lurching from one meeting to the next, barely able to keep anything straight, preoccupied with the few things that they need to present at those meetings and not really caring much about what else is talked about. You probably can’t remember exactly who is at them because you have the same sort of meeting every few days/weeks/months, and participation may vary without warning. Nothing much gets discussed that couldn’t have been done via other methods, but you need to meeting to reinforce the team aspect of the work that you’re doing. It’s simply a repetition of what you’ve been working on and listening to what everyone else was working on, and rarely is anything particularly interesting because it’s all corporate droning. But I think the meetings we’re dealing with here are slightly different. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1226 "2017-07-16T00:57:49Z")
Are you calling me a drone? 🙂 Some of the meetings were regular meetings with mostly the same people, but a lot of them were vendor or customer meetings. It varied a lot. And the meeting we’re talking about was one year ago, not one week ago. It’s easy to say “oh, I can’t believe he can’t remember such and such”, but each of us has our level of adjustment to the lives we lead. Maybe the kind of meetings these guys in would seem spectacularly memorable to you or I, but it was what these guys do all the time. Anyway, feel free to have the last word. Not really something I’m invested in enough to continue debating. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1227 "2017-07-16T01:09:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > [1996 United States campaign finance controversy - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy) > > The Wikipedia article doesn’t mention it, but I understand that some laws were enacted by Congress after this to tighten up what all help could be given by a foreign state to a campaign, and that’s one of the laws that Trump’s people are liable to get prosecuted under. I have to admit my own oversight on this. I guess I wasn’t associating campaign _financing_ (donating money to candidates, which the Chinese may have done to Bill Clinton) with campaign _interference_ (actively trying to smear the disfavoured candidate, which the Russians may have done to Hillary Clinton). Neither is good, but I note that John Huang was convicted and Al Gore did acknowledge the problem. I can picture eventual convictions for Trump’s people (probably not Trump himself, though) but acknowledgement… nah. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1228 "2017-07-16T01:21:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It is also interesting to note that shortly after Jr. had gone to the meeting, and indicated that he was very keen for the Trump campaign to accept help from the Russians, the hacking of the DNC started, and leaks of DNC emails started. Great help from the Russians that was, eh? As weak, and flexible with facts, as Okrahoma’s arguments can be it’s not useful to display the same factual contorionism in response. While the leaks of DNC email began after the meeting, the intrusions had happened in mid-2015 and April 2016 before the meeting. The DNC was already aware of the intrusion in April 2016. Russian involvement had already begun long before Trump looked like anything other than a hopeless vanity candidate. > [@](#): > > And how do you suppose the Russians knew just were to target their social media campaign and fake websites? How did that detailed voter information get to them? It doesn’t take implied conspiracies greater than anything current data supports to explain either of those things just based on what is already on record. Russia also [hacked the Republicans](http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/comey-republicans-hacked-russia/index.html); they mostly hit older servers but old voter information data is still pretty useful for their purposes. In addition they hacked state and local level [election databases](http://time.com/4828306/russian-hacking-election-widespread-private-data/). They also have a whole host of open source data about our elections through our press and polling organizations. Our election wasn’t the first, or only in the time frame, exercise of their ability to target their information operations capabilities to a populace. NATO’s Strategic Communications Center of Excellence [publications pages](http://www.stratcomcoe.org/publications) have several papers detailing various aspects of their capabilities, it’s previous uses, and it’s tie to their hybrid warfare principles. I enjoyed “Internet Trolling as a hybrid warfare tool: the case of Latvia” from JAN16. There’s quite a bit of information available from before any of our election issues brought Russia’s capabilities to a broader popular awareness. Russia hasn’t shown a particular need for active collusion to gather the information needed to effectively target their campaigns. They’ve been able to gather, analyze, and effectively use relevant data even without major collusion. Let’s not assume a sudden burst of renewed incompetence on their part. Let’s also not mistake the threat of exactly the same type of campaign against our future elections is removed if Trump (or another campaign colluding) isn’t around to help. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1229 "2017-07-16T01:53:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > (post shortened because ellipses are what plants crave) > > We both are, only difference is that I’m looking forward to it. FYI - \*An ellipsis (plural: ellipses) is a punctuation mark consisting of three dots. Use an ellipsis when omitting a word, phrase, line, paragraph, or more from a quoted passage. Ellipses save space or remove material that is less relevant. They are useful in getting right to the point without delay or distraction: Full quotation: “Today, after hours of careful thought, we vetoed the bill.” With ellipsis: “Today … we vetoed the bill.”\* > **[Ellipses | Punctuation Rules and Examples](https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/ellipses.asp)** > > If words are omitted at the end of a quoted sentence, use ellipsis marks followed by the necessary ending punctuation mark. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1230 "2017-07-16T02:11:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Some of the meetings were regular meetings with mostly the same people, but a lot of them were vendor or customer meetings. It varied a lot. And the meeting we’re talking about was one year ago, not one week ago. It’s easy to say “oh, I can’t believe he can’t remember such and such”, but each of us has our level of adjustment to the lives we lead. Listen, I agree. Staff meetings from June, you ask me for sure to name everyone who was there, I can’t do it. Not even close. Ask me whether there was anyone there who was an ex-member of the Russian military who lobbies for Russia, though. C’mon, ask me. Similarly: I have no idea what I ate for breakfast last Tuesday. Except if you ask me whether I ate quail eggs stolen from the Princess of Russia’s breakfast table, I can remember that. No! If I had, I’d remember! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1231 "2017-07-16T02:28:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My bet: DJT himself was in that meeting at some point. Of course not! He was listening on the intercom. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Pretty much the only people defending junior going to this meeting are Trump sr. and a handful of Trump spokes-robots, repeating talking points like yours. Mouthpieces. If they were robots, they wouldn’t be so incompetent at repeating his messages. (Interpreters?) ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1232 "2017-07-16T02:35:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes and no. I was exaggerating a bit when I referred to present day as I don’t do a lot of meetings in my current work. But when I worked in corporate America? Absolutely. I spent 90% of my time in meetings and the workday was a big blur of going to one meeting after another. Last week was ancient history. > > Now, let’s be clear. I’m not saying there is no meeting that I could remember everyone from, but there certainly would have been some meetings like that. > > Anyway, this is a big deal right now and the investigation is going to bring to light all sorts of things. What DTJ told Hannity in an interview is unlikely to be of any import a few months from now. Other stuff will be, for sure. But that Hannity stuff is mostly fluff. My biggest nits with Star Trek is, there’s not nearly enough meetings or checklists. We do see a checklist in TOS The Naked Time which was kind of neat. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1233 "2017-07-16T03:20:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …whether I ate quail eggs… Besides being smaller than chicken eggs, they cringe. Chicken eggs just sort of lie there. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1234 "2017-07-16T05:05:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > [@Trafalgar\_Laura](#): > > > > I’m interested in this; could you expand? > > > > (Disclaimer: I just want to know the reason for this comment, I will not engage in a long debate about it one way or the other. Expansion will get a thanks.) > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > I recall there where whiffs that the Chinese had undue influence over Bill Clinton’s administration, especially in his second term, but I don’t remember any hints of Chinese influence on the 1992 or 1996 elections. > > [1996 United States campaign finance controversy - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy) > > The Wikipedia article doesn’t mention it, but I understand that some laws were enacted by Congress after this to tighten up what all help could be given by a foreign state to a campaign, and that’s one of the laws that Trump’s people are liable to get prosecuted under. FWIW, I would mention President Clinton’s reaction to the ensuing investigation(s) was rather different than the current occupant of the Oval Office. From the link in **Sage Rat’s** post: > [@](#): > > President Clinton announced in February 1997 that\*\* he thought there should be a “vigorous” and “thorough” investigation\*\* into reports that the People’s Republic of China tried to direct financial contributions from overseas sources to the Democratic National Committee. The president stopped short of calling for an independent prosecutor, saying that was the decision of the Justice Department. > > \*\*“[O]bviously it would be a very serious matter for the United States if any country were to attempt to funnel funds to one of our parties for any reason whatever,” \*\*President Clinton said. The bolding is mine. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1235 "2017-07-16T05:14:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There are many, many things presidents “cannot” do that Trump does in fact do or attempt to do. What I don’t want is for Trump to somehow sidestep actual punishment for doing them. > > To be clear, I believe that Trump will attempt almost anything to save his own neck, both tried and untried, legal and illegal. If he thinks things are getting too “hot,” I wouldn’t put it past him to start a war as a deflection tactic or even attempt to flee the United States to a country with no extradition treaty with us. I really wouldn’t. > > I think he is the most morally destitute, corrupt, ignorant and shallow individual we have ever suffered in the office. He aspires to be Putin. He flaunts his immoral, depraved nature at every turn and only gets away with it because Republicans – bought and paid for by their corporate masters – turn a blind eye to even his most egregious offenses. If that changes, and I hope it will, attempting to pardon himself is maybe the least of what I expect him to attempt. > > He has seriously considered firing Mueller. He only backed off when Republicans basical him there were lines they were not willing to cross. **What’s shocking to me is, how few of those lines there are.** What’s shocking to me, OTOH, is that there are _any._ Nothing I have seen from them would lead me to that conclusion. ETA: btw, when referring to Meuller & Team, the “& Team” should, by convention refer to his subordinates. It’s not really a thing thae he is kn the same team as whoever ennds up deciding which issues to prosecute. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1236 "2017-07-16T07:33:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It’s not really a thing thae he is kn the same team as whoever ennds up deciding which issues to prosecute. Come again? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1237 "2017-07-16T07:47:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Come again? Yeah, I read that too assuming there was a Scotch/bourbon/vodka component, given the hour. But I can’t really parse it that well either. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1238 "2017-07-16T09:06:56Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > FWIW, I would mention President Clinton’s reaction to the ensuing investigation(s) was rather different than the current occupant of the Oval Office. > From the link in **Sage Rat’s** post: > > The bolding is mine. An intelligent man takes control of the investigation into his own (potentially) nefarious deeds. The stupid man denies the whole thing, acts guilty, and doesn’t take it seriously until the adults have all hired an independent council. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1239 "2017-07-16T09:24:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Come again? Sorry. Fat-fingers on a tablet. “It’s not really a thing that he (Mueller) is on the same team as whoever ends up deciding which issues to prosecute.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1240 "2017-07-16T13:36:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Chicken eggs just sort of lie there. [grammar nitpick]are laid[/grammar nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1241 "2017-07-16T14:32:59Z")
Even some of the Fox News guys seem to be realizing that they can’t defend this while retaining any journalistic credibility. Here, Charles Krathammer scoffs at the idea that incompetence is an excuse. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/rdojX5iBH7Q/hqdefault.jpg "Krauthammer on Trump Jr.: 'I love it' are the fatal words") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdojX5iBH7Q) And here’s Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace. Wallace says “If you’re a fair-minded citizen you ought to be concerned”. Shape is much harsher, I often speculated that he’s going to defect soon to a more mainstream news organization. He’s obviously decided he can’t defend this crap anymore. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5LftyJmNtA) And, for your amusement, here’s the Trump Beatles singing My Son is Dumb [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/f4u2jIBdnYs/maxresdefault.jpg "How Dumb's My Son - The Trump Beatles") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4u2jIBdnYs) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1242 "2017-07-16T14:39:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [grammar nitpick]are laid[/grammar nitpick] First they get laid, then they lie. (With humans, it is often in the opposite order.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=63)