# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1243 "2017-07-16T15:09:39Z")
Funny how history repeats itself [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/s4RV5ff.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/wZPLd) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1244 "2017-07-16T15:51:41Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Funny how history repeats itself > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://imgur.com/a/wZPLd) That is fucking wild! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1245 "2017-07-16T15:59:01Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Funny how history repeats itself > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://imgur.com/a/wZPLd) You know, I really thought that was too good to be true, but Snopes does confirm [it is real](http://www.snopes.com/handy-excuses-nixon-backers/). It’s amazing how parallel history is. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1246 "2017-07-16T16:13:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > You know, I really thought that was too good to be true, but Snopes does confirm [it is real](http://www.snopes.com/handy-excuses-nixon-backers/). It’s amazing how parallel history is. Fools and crooks seldom differ. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1247 "2017-07-16T16:45:02Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Funny how history repeats itself > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://imgur.com/a/wZPLd) It’s like the Trump supporters are working directly off of this list! Pretty funny. I thought there would be similarities, but it’s uncanny. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1248 "2017-07-16T17:58:49Z")
There’s nothing new under the sun. Whatever will make them feel better about supporting a bunch of shady characters will work. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1249 "2017-07-16T18:17:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > There’s nothing new under the sun. Including that saying! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1250 "2017-07-16T18:18:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s shocking to me, OTOH, is that there are _any._ Nothing I have seen from them would lead me to that conclusion. I know, right? Precious little evidence – but cracks are appearing. I nearly fell off my chair when “Mr. Benghazi” himself, Trey Gowdy, actually bitched about the drip, drip, drip: [In case you missed it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5eyfm_fuNQ). > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > ETA: btw, when referring to Meuller & Team, the “& Team” should, by convention refer to his subordinates. It’s not really a thing thae he is kn the same team as whoever ennds up deciding which issues to prosecute. Fair point, and if I hadn’t made it clear in my post #892 in this thread that I understand Mueller will not be the actual prosecutor, I’d be more amenable to the criticism. But who actually prosecutes in which jurisdiction will be another complicated matter in this debacle: Congress for impeachment; Rosenstein as acting AG for federal crimes (unless he, too, is displaced through self-recusal or otherwise for his part in the Comey firing memo); the next US attorney who replaces Preet Bharara for crimes occurring in the State of New York and who knows who else for crimes occurring elsewhere. Mueller himself was not only a US attorney, but an acting deputy AG as well. Anyone who thinks he is not going to have a say in the strategic prosecution of Trump is a bit naive, in my opinion. So yes, my “shorthand” to say “Mueller & Team” would not under ordinary circumstances be strictly accurate. In this situation, I found it acceptable to use. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1251 "2017-07-16T18:20:27Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Funny how history repeats itself > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://imgur.com/a/wZPLd) Great post. As **Euphonious Polemic** said, it’s uncanny. And more than a little sad. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1252 "2017-07-16T18:21:27Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Even some of the Fox News guys seem to be realizing that they can’t defend this while retaining any journalistic credibility. > > Here, Charles Krathammer scoffs at the idea that incompetence is an excuse. > [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rdojX5iBH7Q](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rdojX5iBH7Q) > > And here’s Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace…; Charles Krauthammer isn’t a Fox employee and has hated Donald Trump since forever. He’s been tearing into Trump since at least 2015. Fox brings him on because he’s reliable arch-conservative and smart so he’s reassuring to their viewers… as long as he’s not talking about certain Trump-related issues. Chris Wallace has never been a Trumpist and it’s kind of a miracle Fox employs him; I think he’s the guy they pay to be able to say they aren’t ALL Trump shills. Really, Shepard Smith is the only person on the network who might’ve changed his mind. The rest continue to do as they’re told. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1253 "2017-07-16T19:38:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Great post. As **Euphonious Polemic** said, it’s uncanny. And more than a little sad. I, for one, was saddened at point 15: _I’d rather have a crook in the White House than a fool._ So now, we got both? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1254 "2017-07-17T02:54:42Z")
I just saw an interesting post in a place populated by people who generally _know stuff._… Just an unconfirmed thing at this point - possibly more than a rumor, but… Apparently there is a record of Don Trump Sr. having a phone conversation with someone on his team who was in the meeting with the Russian folks about getting dirt on Ms. Clinton. At the exact same time that this meeting was taking place. So Trump Sr. may not have been in physical attendance at the meeting (even though he was present at Trump Towers at the exact same time… but he was in direct communication with those who were. If this turns out to be correct, this may explain the frantic insistence of “NOT ILLEGAL! NOT ILLEGAL!” that we’ve been hearing lately from Mr. Trumps legal team. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1255 "2017-07-17T03:19:22Z")
At this point, I’m not sure that the intelligence community doesn’t already have everyone dead to rights but is steadily leaking things to erode support to make what has to come next as clean as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1256 "2017-07-17T03:26:49Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > At this point, I’m not sure that the intelligence community doesn’t already have everyone dead to rights but is steadily leaking things to erode support to make what has to come next as clean as possible. Perhaps it is time for Trump to insult the entire intelligence community again. Put them in their place and let them know who the boss is. That will work out great, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1257 "2017-07-17T03:42:46Z")
I just keep coming back to that the stuff that’s public is so damning, imagine what Mueller knows by now. I mean, Manafort’s own daughter’s [hacked text messages](http://bipartisanreport.com/2017/02/28/paul-manaforts-daughter-hacked-her-text-messages-will-disgust-you-details/) describe Manafort and Trump as “plotting together” all day long, and the “most dangerous friendship in America”. And Manafort was in this meeting. No chance Trump wasn’t involved. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1258 "2017-07-17T03:51:06Z")
I heard or read somewhere that Mueller’s team has had information on this meeting since April. No cite, though. I don’t think they’re the ones who are leaking. But I do agree they already have everyone dead to rights. The information about this particular meeting came to us because Jared had to (yet again) amend his security clearance form and disclose the fact of his attendance at the meeting and the emails to Mini-Don that set it up. Remember, Mini-Don was being “transparent” when he released the emails (that the New York Times already had and had said they were intending to disclose in a pending story). Everything snowballed from there, because they just can’t stop lying. To **Euphonious Polemic** ’s point, who knows? The phone call could have been from Jared to Maxi-Don to say, “Hey, you should come down here!” And yes, sooo crafty to slam the people tasked with saving your wretched hide. I’m sure the Secret Service really appreciates being made part of the story and (wrongly) accused of somehow shirking their responsibilities to “vet” any attendees. That’ll sure induce someone to take a bullet for you. I know they’re consummate professionals and will do their jobs despite the inexcusable slurs… but… \ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1259 "2017-07-17T11:00:17Z")
So, a couple of days ago, Jay Sekolow was on ABC News when he said the following: “I wonder why the Secret Service, if this was nefarious, why the Secret Service allowed these people in…” Secret Service replies: “Donald Trump Jr. was not under Secret Service protection in June 2016… Thus we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time.” > **[Secret Service likely wouldn't have intervened in Trump Jr.-Russia meeting](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/secret-service-dismisses-trump-lawyers-claim-russia-meeting/story?id=48673067)** Which makes the attempt to bring the Secret Service into this kind of bizarre. I can’t believe that Mr. Sekulow was doing anything more than shooting the shit off the top of his head, right? That he didn’t realize the kids didn’t receive SS protection until a later date because, to presume otherwise (that the SS detail was involved in this meeting), would largely place Trump himself at the meeting… right? And Mr. Sekulow is too well-established and professional a player to make such a mistake. … Right? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1260 "2017-07-17T11:49:45Z")
I saw that the Secret Service thing was gone into in more detail in the Clusterfuck thread… my bad, checked this one first. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1261 "2017-07-17T13:40:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes and no. I was exaggerating a bit when I referred to present day as I don’t do a lot of meetings in my current work. But when I worked in corporate America? Absolutely. I spent 90% of my time in meetings and the workday was a big blur of going to one meeting after another. Last week was ancient history. > > Now, let’s be clear. I’m not saying there is no meeting that I could remember everyone from, but there certainly would have been some meetings like that. IME there are a lot of meetings like that. Either big meetings with many people, or even smaller meetings where you don’t know all the people. E.g. someone from the client or vendor brings along some associates, and you’re focused on the guy you know better. But generally you’ll remember that there were other people present, even if you don’t remember who they were. It would be unusual, IME, to forget entirely that the other people were there altogether. But it’s possible that everyone is different and/or that DTJ attends more meetings than me (I avoid them to the extent possible). > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Listen, I agree. Staff meetings from June, you ask me for sure to name everyone who was there, I can’t do it. Not even close. > > Ask me whether there was anyone there who was an ex-member of the Russian military who lobbies for Russia, though. C’mon, ask me. It’s likely that ex-members of the Russian military who lobby for Russia would be much more memorable to you than they would be to people at high levels of politics (or even business) who meet many people with similar resumes. More importantly though, it’s not certain that DTJ knew this guy’s background at the time. He would likely have been introduced as so-and-so with such-and-such title, an associate of whoever the main person was. > [@JohnT](#): > > So, a couple of days ago, Jay Sekolow was on ABC News when he said the following: > > “I wonder why the Secret Service, if this was nefarious, why the Secret Service allowed these people in…” > > Secret Service replies: > > “Donald Trump Jr. was not under Secret Service protection in June 2016… Thus we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time.” I don’t get the whole Secret Service angle altogether. The role of the SS is to protect the candidates. Not to make sure the people they’re meeting with are appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1262 "2017-07-17T15:24:15Z")
I speculate the word “nefarious” is operative here. I think what he was trying to say was that “nothing bad like treason happened here because the Secret Service allowed it to happen and they wouldn’t have allowed treason or other illegal acts to go on under their watch – so move along, nothing to see, nothing illegal, and we have the S.S.'s word for it.” I don’t think he knows what the actual role of the S.S. would be, or assumes his audience doesn’t know. So he is attempting to give legitimacy to the meeting by invoking the S.S. And I doubt he even thought about the timeline of S.S. involvement with demi-Don. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=64)