# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1383 "2017-07-19T17:16:52Z")
Again: Trump is nefarious, stupid, or just doesn’t care. Pick one, two or all three. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1384 "2017-07-19T17:20:58Z")
OK, so I was also slightly confused by the “second conversation” thing. But I think it’s fairly clear, right? CNN [says](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/politics/trump-putin-g20/index.html): > [@CNN](#): > > President Donald Trump and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, spoke for a second time on July 7 in a previously undisclosed discussion, the White House confirmed on Tuesday. > > A senior White House official told CNN the discussion was “nearly an hour.” > > \ > > The White House statement said the conversation took place in full view of other world leaders and their spouses at a dinner hosted by German Chancellor Angela Merkel during the G20 summit. Trump was seated near Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Abe’s wife, while first lady Melania Trump was seated next to Putin. On NPR, Ian Bremmer [said](http://www.npr.org/2017/07/18/537993059/ian-bremmer-trump-putin-held-second-meeting-at-g-20-summit): > [@](#): > > It was very warm and friendly. It was extremely animated. There was, you know, sort of a lot of hand gestures, gesticulations, that sort of thing. It was clear they were very close. **It was clear that they were very much closer to each other than Trump is with any of his allies at the meeting, which I think is why they found it so disconcerting** - and also the fact that it lasted roughly an hour, which I mean - the dinner itself was quite long. It was about three and a half hours. But still, you know, that’s a substantial meeting and especially on the back of the over-two-hour formal meeting they had before that. And the only person that knows what was discussed is the translator aside from the two principals. (my bold) So, AFAICT the issue isn’t that the meeting was secret, it’s that Trump was in a group, surrounded by a bunch of allies, and decided to spend an hour talking exclusively to one guy. It shows the relationship Trump is most concerned about is the one he has with Putin. Trump’s the guy at the office party who tries to spend all night talking to the VP he wants to curry favor with. Yes, it was in full sight of everyone. Yes, anyone within earshot, who spoke Russian or English, knows what they said (but apparently no one who was is talking). I think the point is that Trump was paying less attention to all the other G20 members so he could pal around with Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1385 "2017-07-19T17:22:02Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > What “secrecy”? It was at a dinner table. In full view of all the G20 leaders and their photographers. There was no one from the US at the dinner other than Trump, Melania and Trump’s **Japanese** interpreter. Should he have invited that interpreter to his conversation with Putin? > > This whole thing is a perfect example of just how deep Trump Derangement Syndrome goes. You mean the other leaders who considered the meeting [unusual](http://www.newsweek.com/putin-trump-meeting-unusual-g20-leaders-bemused-presidents-private-chat-638616)? And yes, secret, because there is no legitimate transcript of the meeting as there was no other American there. Weird, huh? As Trump [helpfully reminded us today](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342716-trump-voter-fraud-panel-will-find-full-truth?rnd=1500480566): _“If any state does not want to share this information, one has to wonder what they’re worried about? “What are they worried about? There’s something, there always is.”_ Unclear why this doesn’t apply to his meetings with Russians or tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1386 "2017-07-19T17:34:01Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > For the purposes of my question, I gave Trump the benefit of the doubt (which he hasn’t earned, mind you) that it is 100% on the up and up. If that’s the case, knowing the optics you would have to be incredibly stupid to have this meeting the way he did. > > Assuming that Trump has a modicum of intelligence that having a personal meeting with no other Americans around is going to look really, really bad, it is logical to assume that the meeting, and its associated secrecy, was very important. > > Similar to hiding tax returns, the only reason to do it is if releasing them is even worse. Trump needed to say something in secret to Putin, and he was willing to risk the terrible optics to do it. Following your reasoning, that would also mean that he doesn’t trust his wife (who was seated next to Putin) enough to discreetly act as a go between to pass on any messages. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1387 "2017-07-19T17:54:20Z")
Karl Rove reportedly said that he would not have taken a meeting with people linked to a foreign adversary seeking to pass on damaging information about one’s opponent. Instead, Rove would call the FBI, according to [Politico.](http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/playbook/2017/07/19/another-pivot-tax-reform-and-infrastructure-but-trump-needs-to-beware-treasury-secretaries-they-are-just-like-us-mnuchin-at-apple-store-at-5-40-pm-trump-unhappy-with-coverage-about-his-putin-talk-rove-i-wouldnt-take-russia-meeting-221399) Karl Rove, ladies and gentlemen. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1388 "2017-07-19T17:55:13Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Following your reasoning, that would also mean that he doesn’t trust his wife (who was seated next to Putin) enough to discreetly act as a go between to pass on any messages. Sad! [Fox “News” is trying to spin it as Trump walking over to his wife for a brief conversation, which happened to include Putin.](https://thinkprogress.org/trump-ally-blames-trumps-secret-meeting-with-putin-on-melania-s-irresistible-beauty-5869de307b7c) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1389 "2017-07-19T18:02:17Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Maybe Trump wanted to tell Putin, in private, that he’d have more flexibility later to negotiate with him? > > In other news, under the radar, [House Republicans plan to give federal prosecutors what they say is evidence that Obama administration officials illegally shared or leaked names of associates of President Donald Trump that were incidentally collected in U.S. government eavesdropping](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-14/republicans-to-give-prosecutors-documents-on-leaking-allegations). Great! **When will Trump’s DoJ start the prosecutions?** Or will he just roll over and whine about how he’s a victim ? ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1390 "2017-07-19T18:09:51Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > And yes, secret, because there is no legitimate transcript of the meeting as there was no other American there. Weird, huh? This is a genuine question. As I understand it, each couple was allowed to bring one translator (and Trump brought a Japanese translator because he was sitting next to Abe’s wife). But that means (at least) two things: one member of each couple will be sitting without a translator. And it means that most of these conversations are going to only have a three people in them (at most – the pictures look like Trump sat next to Juliana Awada, who speaks English, so I assume they spoke alone if at all). What is supposed to be the protocol in these situations? I see the picture of Putin, Melania, and the Russian translator, and that seems strange, but I’m not sure how else the dinner can work. (And, based on the pictures, it does not look like the guests were always seated World Leader, Spouse, World Leader, etc., so it’s not like we just assume they’d never speak). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1391 "2017-07-19T18:11:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Karl Rove reportedly said that he would not have taken a meeting with people linked to a foreign adversary seeking to pass on damaging information about one’s opponent. Instead, Rove would call the FBI, according to [Politico.](http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/playbook/2017/07/19/another-pivot-tax-reform-and-infrastructure-but-trump-needs-to-beware-treasury-secretaries-they-are-just-like-us-mnuchin-at-apple-store-at-5-40-pm-trump-unhappy-with-coverage-about-his-putin-talk-rove-i-wouldnt-take-russia-meeting-221399) > > Karl Rove, ladies and gentlemen. Do you believe him? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1392 "2017-07-19T18:11:24Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > What “secrecy”? It was at a dinner table. In full view of all the G20 leaders and their photographers. There was no one from the US at the dinner other than Trump, Melania and Trump’s **Japanese** interpreter. Should he have invited that interpreter to his conversation with Putin? > > This whole thing is a perfect example of just how deep Trump Derangement Syndrome goes. Donnie is trying to show the breitboys he has got their interests in mind all the time, especially about public gestures. Skipping out on nato allies to pal around with putin for an hour is great optics for fascists. At the same time he is coming out as putins cuckold. This would be unacceptable for a left wing politician, no matter who it was. Anyway he was there doing the peoples business on the peoples dime. Let’s hear the explanation of what was said. No need for arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1393 "2017-07-19T18:14:31Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Do you believe him? I take the report with a grain of salt that it wasn’t actually videotaped, but in general, I don’t think Rove is a dumb man. Do I trust his ethics? No. But is he stupid? No way. So I tend to think the statement rings true. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1394 "2017-07-19T18:22:38Z")
I wouldn’t believe him if he said water was wet. But I do think he’s politically savvy, and smart enough to know how to go about doing this without getting caught. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1395 "2017-07-19T18:29:24Z")
Melania was sitting right next to Putin. Why don’t we ask her what was said? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1396 "2017-07-19T18:41:24Z")
They don’t have the channel Kushner suggested to the Russians of background comms using **only** Russian systems so he has to do this shit. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1397 "2017-07-19T18:46:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I take the report with a grain of salt that it wasn’t actually videotaped, but in general, I don’t think Rove is a dumb man. Do I trust his ethics? No. But is he stupid? No way. So I tend to think the statement rings true. What a fabulous coincidence that probably the only time something Rove said “rings true” happens when he said something you already thought. And makes Trump look bad. One in a million. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1398 "2017-07-19T18:53:33Z")
What’s Rove’s incentive to lie to make Trump look bad? Seems to me that Trump does just fine with that himself. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1399 "2017-07-19T19:00:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What’s Rove’s incentive to lie to make Trump look bad? Seems to me that Trump does just fine with that himself. What’s his incentive to tell the truth? It’s not like that’s his default preference. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1400 "2017-07-19T19:01:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > What a fabulous coincidence that probably the only time something Rove said “rings true” happens when he said something you already thought. And makes Trump look bad. One in a million. This isn’t even a case of great minds thinking alike, this is a case of anyone with greater than a room temperature IQ (in C) would have avoided either the meeting, or at least getting caught about the meeting. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1401 "2017-07-19T19:12:15Z")
Yeah, I agree on the not getting caught part. My hunch is Rove only would have called the FBI if he thought the meeting was a setup and wanted to fuck them back. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1402 "2017-07-19T19:28:26Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Do you believe him? What was the name again? Oh. No. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=71)