# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1503 "2017-07-21T14:11:48Z")
Trump’s lawyer’s name is “Ty Cobb”? As with the “Reality Winner” thing, this is yet more evidence that I’m dreaming this whole preposterous debacle after eating too many hot wings before bedtime. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1504 "2017-07-21T14:13:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Mueller could continue his investigation if he doesn’t get fired by Trump. But if Trump is willing to go to the point of pardoning everyone, then he’s also likely to fire Mueller. > > I think if Trump succeeds in attracting public support for his claim that Mueller has exceeded his mandate and is on a fishing expedition etc., then there’s a good chance he goes this route. Otherwise, not so much. But you never know with this group. These are the guys who genuinely thought firing Comey would be well received by Democrats and the public at large. If Trump does fire Mueller, can Congress reauthorize him under the Legislative branch? Assuming enough Republicans are sickened by Trump’s action to support this. Also, could he hand off all his investigative material to the State AG’s? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1505 "2017-07-21T14:37:06Z")
I think it’s just a matter of time before it happens. What will be interesting to see is the political impact of it, and how it is felt in the Senate, which is already worried about losing the House. If progressive and independent voters in more centrist districts begin to view Trump as a clear and present danger to democracy, then it could change the political landscape. The Republicans still, by all rights, ought to win the mid-terms, but we’re six months in and there’s no healthcare bill, no tax reform, nothing the Republican party voters can really point to other than the fact that at least there’s no Hillary or Barack in the Oval Office. They’ve won the special elections but not all by comfortable margins and these were races they pretty much dominated in the previous elections. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1506 "2017-07-21T14:37:41Z")
Natalia Veselnitskaya, “the Russian government lawyer” that met with Kushner, has actually [represented the FSB in several legal cases](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-lawyer-exclusive-idUSKBN1A61LZ?il=0) involving, naturally, high-end property in Moscow. Reading between the lines, it seems that these cases involved the FSB taking property from former oligarchs that were Putin’s opponents, and then transferring or leasing it to oligarchs like Sergei Chemezov, which just happen to be Putin’s allies. Exactly the sort of lawyer who would be the perfect go-between for the FSB, and who would know where Trump has any hypothetical buried bodies. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1507 "2017-07-21T14:40:25Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m buoyed by this idea, albeit dragged down slightly by the prospect of 11 years of President Pence. Be of good cheer; if Pence takes over before two full years of Trump’s term have run, he can only be elected to the office once: > [@](#): > > The 22nd Amendment specifically addresses this issue. > > No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. > **[If the vice president of the U.S. finishes out a president's term, can he/she...](https://www.quora.com/If-the-vice-president-of-the-U-S-finishes-out-a-presidents-term-can-he-she-still-run-for-two-more-terms)** > > Answer (1 of 20): The 22nd Amendment specifically addresses this issue. > > No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of... Well, maybe not **good** cheer exactly; less morose, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1508 "2017-07-21T14:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post > I’m buoyed by this idea, albeit dragged down slightly by the prospect of 11 years of President Pence. If Trump goes down, with or without a fight, I imagine Pence will be seen as damaged goods. He’s not that popular to begin with. I really doubt he could get elected on his own, especially after a scandal big enough to bring down Trump. Disclaimer: I’ve been wrong about everything up to this point, and no longer believe I understand a huge portion of the American voting public. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1509 "2017-07-21T14:48:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If Trump goes down, with or without a fight, I imagine Pence will be seen as damaged goods. He’s not that popular to begin with. I really doubt he could get elected on his own, especially after a scandal big enough to bring down Trump. > > Disclaimer: I’ve been wrong about everything up to this point, and no longer believe I understand a huge portion of the American voting public. I sort of agree with that, except that an incumbent President Pence might have a lot of advantages going for him if the country was in good shape the economy is good. Plain ol’ Governor Pence running on his own would probably not get far. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1510 "2017-07-21T14:59:15Z")
I could actually see Pence recovering and mounting a win. He would probably at least try to speak to some of Trump’s less evangelical base, and in the same way that Biden was kind of a nostalgic extension of Obama, Pence might be held in similar regard to at least some of Trump’s supporters. But make no mistake about it: Pence has the evangelicals and the corporate vote firmly in hand, especially when compared to a Democratic candidate. He wouldn’t be so offensive so he’d probably convince at least some independents and democrats who aren’t all that political that it’s safe to sit out the next election if there’s nobody that really turns them on, and right now, I don’t see any attractive candidate out there. This is why I think the potential firing of Mueller could convince at least some republicans to consider impeachment, probably along the same lines as the healthcare vote. It could be a “save the party and majority” moment. The dynamics would be different if Trump and Republicans were actually achieving anything substantive in congress, but they’re not. And they’re increasingly calling each other out in public and becoming a circular firing squad. Might be a case of Democrats having to be careful what they wish for. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1511 "2017-07-21T15:07:53Z")
Mueller made an official request of the WH to preserve all documents and records pertaining to the Trump Jr. meeting, CNN is reporting. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1512 "2017-07-21T15:11:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Mueller made an official request of the WH to preserve all documents and records pertaining to the Trump Jr. meeting, CNN is reporting. “Oops, too late.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1513 "2017-07-21T15:12:25Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Trump’s lawyer’s name is “Ty Cobb”? > > As with the “Reality Winner” thing, this is yet more evidence that I’m dreaming this whole preposterous debacle after eating too many hot wings before bedtime. Then you need to wake up, and stop dragging us all through your fowl fueled nightmares. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1514 "2017-07-21T15:24:17Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Trump’s lawyer’s name is “Ty Cobb”? > > As with the “Reality Winner” thing, this is yet more evidence that I’m dreaming this whole preposterous debacle after eating too many hot wings before bedtime. According to [this fake news site](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/15/politics/who-is-ty-cobb-white-house-special-counsel/index.html), he claims to be a distant relative of the baseball player. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1515 "2017-07-21T16:51:26Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Lead attorney [has resigned now](http://thehill.com/homenews/news/343069-trumps-personal-lawyer-resigns-from-top-post-amid-legal-team-shakeup) too. Do we have any inkling whether these resignations were initiated by the lawyers because they couldn’t stand working with Trump, intiatre by Trump because they wouldn’t do what he wanted, or a combination of the two? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1516 "2017-07-21T17:05:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Do we have any inkling whether these resignations were initiated by the lawyers because they couldn’t stand working with Trump, intiatre by Trump because they wouldn’t do what he wanted, or a combination of the two? That guy had been working for Trump since the early 2000s, the article said, and defended him through the Trump University case. So “none of the above” would be my answer for this job shuffle. He wasn’t qualified to be running something like this and he also just had a bunch of profanity laced emails leaked. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1517 "2017-07-21T17:23:28Z")
Also, Kasowitz doesn’t even have a security clearance, and IIRC there was reporting saying that it was probably impossible for him to ever get clearance due to a history of alcohol abuse and workplace harassment. At this point, a security clearance is a hard requirement for anyone representing our dear Republican president, or probably anyone in the Trump family. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1518 "2017-07-21T18:23:19Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This is why I think the potential firing of Mueller could convince at least some republicans to consider impeachment, probably along the same lines as the healthcare vote. It could be a “save the party and majority” moment. The dynamics would be different if Trump and Republicans were actually achieving anything substantive in congress, but they’re not. And they’re increasingly calling each other out in public and becoming a circular firing squad. Might be a case of Democrats having to be careful what they wish for. Exactly. In terms of gaining political advantage, Democrats should not be advocating for Trump’s impeachment and removal from office. They should draw out the process as much as possible, because the drip-drip-drip of corruption and incompetence is tarring all Republicans. At some point enough Republicans are going to realize how badly Trump is hurting them and then they’ll want to move quickly. Democrats should slow down the process without hindering it for maximum electoral advantage. Unfortunately, in terms of what’s best for the nation, it’s better to remove Trump and his cronies as soon as possible. Sometimes being grown up is not easy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1519 "2017-07-21T19:08:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Exactly. In terms of gaining political advantage, Democrats should not be advocating for Trump’s impeachment and removal from office. They should draw out the process as much as possible, because the drip-drip-drip of corruption and incompetence is tarring all Republicans. At some point enough Republicans are going to realize how badly Trump is hurting them and then they’ll want to move quickly. Democrats should slow down the process without hindering it for maximum electoral advantage. > > Unfortunately, in terms of what’s best for the nation, it’s better to remove Trump and his cronies as soon as possible. Sometimes being grown up is not easy. Yeah, if Trump starts a nuclear war with California, then the democrats have a chance in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1520 "2017-07-21T19:10:22Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Unfortunately, in terms of what’s best for the nation, it’s better to remove Trump and his cronies as soon as possible. Sometimes being grown up is not easy. If Democrats believe that’s what’s best for the country, then that’s what they should do. Party before country is what got us into this. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1521 "2017-07-21T20:00:19Z")
From Politico: [Does Trump Have a Case Against Mueller?](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/21/robert-mueller-trump-roundtable-215404) The White House is seeking to discredit Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his investigative team. Could it work? > [@](#): > > **Trump’s case against Mueller is garbage** > _Retired ambassador Norman Eisen, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, is chair and co-founder of the watchdog group CREW. He was White House ethics czar under President Barack Obama from 2009-11 and before that defended white-collar and congressional investigations for two decades as a partner at Zuckerman Spaeder LLP._ > > … > > **Trump is digging his hole deeper** > _Bob Bauer is professor of practice at New York University School of Law and former White House counsel to President Barack Obama._ > > … > > **For Trump, it’s all personal** > _Samuel Buell is a law professor at Duke University and a former federal prosecutor who led the Justice Department’s prosecution of Enron Corporation._ > > … > > W **hat matters is what Congress thinks** > _Brian Kalt is law professor at Michigan State University and author of “Constitutional Cliffhangers: A Legal Guide for Presidents and Their Enemies.”_ > > … > > **There’s no sign that Mueller is going beyond his mandate** > _William Jeffress is a white-collar defense attorney at Baker Botts. He represented I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby in the Valerie Plame affair._ > > … > > **Trump doesn’t understand how government works** > _Asha Rangappa is an associate dean at Yale Law School and a former special agent in the Counterintelligence Division of the FBI._ > > … > > **Trump doesn’t respect the Justice Department’s independence** > _Carrie Cordero is an attorney in private practice, adjunct professor at Georgetown Law and former counsel to the assistant attorney general for national security._ > > … > \*\* > Bob Mueller is nobody’s idea of a political hack\*\* > _Orin Kerr is a law professor at George Washington University and the director of the Cybersecurity Law Initiative._ > > … > > **Mueller and his team deserve our trust, patience and respect** > _Renato Mariotti is a former federal prosecutor who handled many obstruction cases. He is now a partner at Thompson Coburn LLP._ ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1522 "2017-07-21T20:45:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, if Trump starts a nuclear war with California, then the democrats have a chance in 2018. Given that California is a pretty large voting block for Democrats, and they’d lose a nuclear war, I think it’s reasonable to say that a nuclear war between the Federal government and California would not end up favoring Democrats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=77)