# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1583 "2017-07-22T19:12:01Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I would assume a more likely scenario would be Trump pardoning his associates and minions, resigning and Pence pardoning him, Nixon style. I’m not sure about that. Can you imagine anyone, even him, wanting to be “that guy”? The best he could do would be to prevent his name from becoming more prominent in this episode of US history than donalds own. I just don’t think this is the way to do that. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1584 "2017-07-22T19:13:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Ford pardoned Nixon. No convictions first. Ibid ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1585 "2017-07-22T19:16:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Ford pardoned Nixon. No convictions first. Carter pardoned every draft dodger from the Vietnam War with the only provision being that they had to request one. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1586 "2017-07-22T19:31:18Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Ford pardoned Nixon. No convictions first. I’m too young to remember. Did anyone ever try to challenge Ford’s pardon in court for some reason? Or was everyone just happy to let Nixon go away and drink himself to death? I can’t remember where I’ve said this - but I honestly don’t think that Donald has any intention of going away if he pardons himself. He certainly won’t admit to doing anything wrong. And he’ll fully expect to keep on doing whatever it is he’s doing, because he’s pardoned now, so he’s free from all sin, eternally. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1587 "2017-07-22T19:53:03Z")
Its the money. The Russians are a distant second, its his money. Even if his crimes are pardoned, investors who think they’ve been had can still sue. Don’t think you can pardon back-taxes. We already know the man’s a crook, look at Trump University, total scam from the git-go. He doesn’t care about his reputation, or history, or anything else. His money. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1588 "2017-07-22T19:58:46Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Ford pardoned Nixon. No convictions first. It’s probably the most relevant example. Why do you just hand-wave it away? Trump can, and probably will pardon his close friends and family members before a conviction, and indeed before the investigation can go much further. He is desperate to stop Mueller from delving into his family finances. Yes, it presumes guilt. This will not matter to the Trumpists. The investigation will then be closed, and Mueller fired because "there is nothing left to investigate- everyone has been proven innocent by “The Pardon” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1589 "2017-07-22T20:00:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its the money. The Russians are a distant second, its his money. We now know that Junior met with an alleged Russian money launderer and a Russian lawyer who has defended money launderers. What are the chances that they sent some dirty money toward the Trumps? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1590 "2017-07-22T20:08:01Z")
My comment above was to **drad dog** \*\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1591 "2017-07-22T20:09:02Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > We now know that Junior met with an alleged Russian money launderer and a Russian lawyer who has defended money launderers. What are the chances that they sent some dirty money toward the Trumps? 100%. And Trump is shit-scared that this is going to be revealed, leading to a term of 40 - 100 years in a federal cell. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1592 "2017-07-22T20:22:55Z")
Don’t care, don’t want him in Club Fed. (Actually know people who have been there, its like Summer Camp but your Mom can’t come get you. Also, shitty wine list…) Don’t care where he goes, so long as its away. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1593 "2017-07-22T20:45:11Z")
Congress [passed](http://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/us/politics/congress-sanctions-russia.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share) a bill to limit Trump’s ability to change Russian sanctions. Now the question is whether he will sign it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1594 "2017-07-22T20:51:56Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Congress [passed](http://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/us/politics/congress-sanctions-russia.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share) a bill to limit Trump’s ability to change Russian sanctions. Now the question is whether he will sign it. Doesn’t look like the bill has actually passed yet. But it appears that it will, easily, and it seems like there will be a veto-proof majority, too. I have to imagine that few presidents would willingly sign such a bill, but again with a veto-proof majority that’s kind of moot. But then, there are signing statements to be dealt with and this might end up in the courts if Trump presses things. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1595 "2017-07-22T21:09:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > If this causes Sessions to resign, Trump gets a shiny new non-recused AG, right? Well, he can nominate an AG that would have to make various assurances and pledges to the Senate in order to have a chance in hell of being confirmed. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I was watching the news yesterday and they kept playing this clip of Jeff Sessions saying this: > > “I was your colleague in this body for 20 years, and the suggestion that I participated in any collusion or that I was aware of any collusion with the Russian government to hurt this country, which I have served with honor for over 35 years, or to undermine the integrity of our democratic process, is an appalling and detestable lie." > > Yes, I know this is an old statement but I caught something in it last night. > > The bolding is mine and I’m wondering if this is significant. Because he’s not really saying he didn’t do it. And I think a good percentage of the Trump defenders know damn well that he (Trump and friends, not just Deputy Dawg) did it, but think it was justified as some sort of patriotic act to save our country and democracy from being undermined by the illegitimate money-laundering, child molesting Hillary Clinton. > > And I think that’s the signaling every time every time some Trumpist says "If the Russians interfered in our election that is horrible,horrible and we need to get to the bottom of it. There’s a sense of nudge nudge wink wink we know we have to say this but it saved us from Hillary, right? It’s the new “patriotism” at work. > > And I think this attitude is going to persist no matter what else is revealed. it shows in the constant moving of the goalposts - the very title of this old thread is Trump ASSOCIATES may have colluded with the Russians but then the party line shifted to “Trump himself didn’t do it” and “If he did,its not illegal”. > > So I think the stalemating will continue, Trump will fire Mueller and get away with it and he’ll manage to shift the whole thing over to the scandal of Hillary sending 33,000 emails to child sex slave on Mars, or something. It’s increasingly looking like he’s going to do the usual “accuse the enemy of what we’re guilty of” and frame it as: \*Clinton, the Dems and “the LSM” were complicit in introducing foreign subjects into our precious body politic without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice! 😃 \* Yep, see, they did everything they’re being accused of in an effort to _protect_ our democracy from being hijacked! ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1596 "2017-07-22T21:27:53Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s probably the most relevant example. Why do you just hand-wave it away? > > Trump can, and probably will pardon his close friends and family members before a conviction, and indeed before the investigation can go much further. He is desperate to stop Mueller from delving into his family finances. > > Yes, it presumes guilt. \*\*This will not matter to the Trumpists. \*\* The investigation will then be closed, and Mueller fired because "there is nothing left to investigate- everyone has been proven innocent by “The Pardon” (Bolding mine) It’s been said before, but perhaps should be repeated: Trumpists will not care if he’s guilty because what those snowflake liberals are talking about is really no big deal, and all they want to keep Donald from making America great again. He would have accomplished so much if only he didn’t have to keep tweeting about those petty accusations! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1597 "2017-07-22T21:44:24Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Well, he can nominate an AG that would have to make various assurances and pledges to the Senate in order to have a chance in hell of being confirmed. > It’s increasingly looking like he’s going to do the usual “accuse the enemy of what we’re guilty of” and frame it as: \*Clinton, the Dems and “the LSM” were complicit in introducing foreign subjects into our precious body politic without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice! 😃 > \* Ice cream, voltaire, Donnie’s ice cream. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1598 "2017-07-22T21:53:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s probably the most relevant example. Why do you just hand-wave it away? > > Trump can, and probably will pardon his close friends and family members before a conviction, and indeed before the investigation can go much further. He is desperate to stop Mueller from delving into his family finances. > > Yes, it presumes guilt. This will not matter to the Trumpists. The investigation will then be closed, and Mueller fired because "there is nothing left to investigate- everyone has been proven innocent by “The Pardon” You contradict yourself in one sentence. If there are pardons then there is an admission of wrongdoing. Pardons do not exculpate anyone. They will further Muellers investigation. And it’s even harder to claim 5th amendment. To top it off you will be written down in history with Quisling and Arnold, and you will be at the top of that list. I have asked for other examples. Is it only Nixon and then all the vietnam era evaders? It seems to me that there’s a couple of excluded middles in this. I’m not writing this script yet. It’s going to be different to try and do this under current conditions. Have you ever asked for a pardon and got it? It’s not like the grantor is God. It’s a tangled web, and Donald is not a mastermind, nor are his lawyers. So how will the govt run after this event? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1599 "2017-07-22T22:08:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You contradict yourself in one sentence. If there are pardons then there is an admission of wrongdoing. Pardons do not exculpate anyone. They will further Muellers investigation. Unless, of course, Trump fired Mueller. You’re assuming there’s a foolproof way to catch Trump; there isn’t. Trump could in theory simply pardon everyone, have Mueller fired, and that’s the end of it **unless he’s impeached.** No matter how you design this scenario, no matter what hypothesis you put forward, it can always be funneled towards impeachment. Do you believe Republicans will vote to impeach and convict Trump? I don’t. > [@](#): > > Can you name someone other than Nixon who got this? Caspar Weinberger is another example. He was indicted but it didn’t get to trial. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1600 "2017-07-22T22:15:54Z")
I’m sure that Trump has committed some state crimes in New York that Mueller can uncover. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1601 "2017-07-22T22:19:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m sure that Trump has committed some state crimes in New York that Mueller can uncover. He’s probably committed crimes in all 50 states. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1602 "2017-07-22T22:25:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Unless, of course, Trump fired Mueller. > > You’re assuming there’s a foolproof way to catch Trump; there isn’t. Trump could in theory simply pardon everyone, have Mueller fired, and that’s the end of it **unless he’s impeached.** No matter how you design this scenario, no matter what hypothesis you put forward, it can always be funneled towards impeachment. > > Do you believe Republicans will vote to impeach and convict Trump? I don’t. > Caspar Weinberger is another example. He was indicted but it didn’t get to trial. If he fires Mueller then we are in terra incognita, for me, you and the congress. You are really going to predict stuff like that after the last year? What do you mean by “catch trump”? And can you define “end of it” ? You mean congress will never impeach donald? I am not so dystopian as you are. It sounds like you believe donald will hand out \*\*\*blanket prospective \*\*\*pardons to a whole host of people and himself like it’s Halloween. And life will just go on? It will be a constitutional crisis to say the least. There are many many competing interests in situations like this.Donald is not the only one who will be making decisions, statements, tweets, leaks, accusations, taking care of their family, their fortune, their health, and their _ **reputation/posterity** _. Are you just waving all this away? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=81)