# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1763 "2017-07-27T21:04:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Well, [this is something](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/344176-graham-writing-bill-to-stop-trump-from-firing-special-counsel) too. > \* > "Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) said Thursday that he is writing a bill that will limit President Trump’s ability to fire the special counsel investigating Russian election meddling. > > Graham said his bill, which he will introduce next week, will block a president from firing the special counsel without a federal judge’s approval if that counsel is investigating the president or his administration, according to The Wall Street Journal."\* LOL, let’s see if he attaches a “Repeal Obamacare” bill to it as an addendum before we take it too seriously. 😉 Hats off to him if he actually does it clean. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1764 "2017-07-27T21:13:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Nine days, I would have agreed with you, asahi; since then we’ve seen something I doubted we ever would: Congressional Republicans _actually criticizing Trump publicly_. They may do so in muted tones, but they’re doing it. And each time they do it without experiencing major uproar from their constituents, they are more likely to do it again. > > It’s actually possible that those Republicans may be considering whether or not the political pain of acting against Trump might be less than they feared–and whether they could get so much done under President Pence that the pain would be wiped out by a list of achievements that would let them ignore the Trump cultists. By getting done things their constituents want done, instead of being extras in the never-ending Donald Drama…well, I suspect many of them are giving this more thought than pessimists like you or I could imagine. Republicans in the Senate are criticizing Trump publicly, but it’s much quieter in the House. The reason the Senate Republicans don’t fear Trump is because they’re either not running or the few who are are running in slam dunk red states. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1765 "2017-07-27T21:23:54Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Well, [this is something](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/344176-graham-writing-bill-to-stop-trump-from-firing-special-counsel) too. > \* > "Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) said Thursday that he is writing a bill that will limit President Trump’s ability to fire the special counsel investigating Russian election meddling. > > Graham said his bill, which he will introduce next week, will block a president from firing the special counsel without a federal judge’s approval if that counsel is investigating the president or his administration, according to The Wall Street Journal."\* Thanks, Fiveyearlurker. And the bill makes good sense–no one with a particle of decency would defend the idea that a president is so above the law that he can fire those investigating him. Given the founders’ reluctance to hem in Presidents, I don’t know if it’s constitutional—if the bill passed and were put into action, the results might well end up before the Supreme Court. But at least it does make clear that there are certain lines that should not be crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1766 "2017-07-27T23:54:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Republicans in the Senate are criticizing Trump publicly, but it’s much quieter in the House. The reason the Senate Republicans don’t fear Trump is because they’re either not running or the few who are are running in slam dunk red states. True. But even for those fearful Representatives, just hearing a number of others offer criticism, has to give them something to think about. Up until now the ‘don’t speak ill of Trump’ line has held–now it has given way. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1767 "2017-07-28T02:07:45Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > True. > > But even for those fearful Representatives, just hearing a number of others offer criticism, has to give them something to think about. Up until now the ‘don’t speak ill of Trump’ line has held–now it has given way. They’ll think about it before thinking “If he’d just sign an Obamacare repeal – any Obamacare repeal” or “If he’d just sign this tax cut” or “If he’d just keep sending us conservative judge, one after another, to confirm” The Senate Republicans and the Republicans generally are like the German Conservatives in the early 1930s. They believe that he’s useful and that they can reel him in if he goes too far. The problem is, they won’t know he’s gone _too_ far, until _after_ he’s gone too far. Remember, the Senators got into power by people who voted. They got voted in, and they can get voted out. They know that a significant percentage of the bread and butter voters who will vote for them in their upcoming races probably voted for Trump. Trumpism has been validated by voters. It has been validated by millions and millions of voters who should have known better. Trump should have been stopped on election night, and indeed, many of his own party assumed that would happen. But it didn’t, and they have to take notice. Bad press aren’t votes. Opinion polls aren’t votes. Protests, even big ones, aren’t votes. The voting behavior still suggests that Trump is fairly well tolerated, if not liked, by the voters who will vote in upcoming House and Senate races. So despite their frustration and tough rhetoric they’re not going to jump off the Trump train, because where else would they go? Sorry, but Trump isn’t Nixon, Congress isn’t controlled by Democrats, and this isn’t 1974. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1768 "2017-07-28T06:23:28Z")
Tonight’s vote may change the calculus, however. The Reps have a President who can’t help them push a bill through, the Pres has a party that can’t give him a win. This is not a sustainable political relationship by any stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1769 "2017-07-28T07:08:31Z")
Some testimony about Don Jr’s meeting with Russia: [Read the Full Text of Bill Browder's Testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/bill-browders-testimony-to-the-senate-judiciary-committee/534864/) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1770 "2017-07-28T14:13:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Nine days, I would have agreed with you, asahi; since then we’ve seen something I doubted we ever would: Congressional Republicans _actually criticizing Trump publicly_. And Paul Ryan was very specific in saying he’s fine with Trump firing Sessions. Forget it, Jake. It’s Partisantown. When Ryan takes pains to make it very clear that Trump can fire Sessions, he’s doing that for one reason; to pave the way towards refusing to acknowledge, or do anything about, obstruction of justice. He’s got his remarks prepared for when Trump shivs Robert Mueller. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1771 "2017-07-28T18:00:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Tonight’s vote may change the calculus, however. The Reps have a President who can’t help them push a bill through, the Pres has a party that can’t give him a win. This is not a sustainable political relationship by any stretch. The calculus I’m interested in hearing about, though, is the one that has to do with funding. The Kochs gave a shitload of money to the Pubs and as I understand it a lot of that was because they really hate the ACA and want it gone. So Pubs held their noses and (mostly) voted for skinny repeal. They lost. I don’t know how much the Kochs like Trump, but I have to imagine this loss will hurt him in their eyes. It’s possible (and I have no idea how likely) that GOP Reps may take a look at Trump’s approval ratings in the polls and assess the Kochs’ lack of approval and decide the best thing to do is to play the middle – not actively diss Trump, but not actively support him either. If the Dem candidate in the district seems to be getting some traction they may then come out strongly against Trump. I don’t understand Ryan’s stance. The only idea I have is very far-fetched – he figures if Trump gets impeached he may quit in a huff. If Pence is somehow out too before taking over as POTUS, then Paulie’s next in line. But the likelihood of that is so slim I can’t see Ryan giving it any weight. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1772 "2017-07-28T18:12:58Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > I don’t understand Ryan’s stance. The only idea I have is very far-fetched – he figures if Trump gets impeached he may quit in a huff. If Pence is somehow out too before taking over as POTUS, then Paulie’s next in line. But the likelihood of that is so slim I can’t see Ryan giving it any weight. If we’re playing \*Game of Thrones \*strategy, you might think that Ryan sees himself as likely to get the VP slot if Trump is out, and that puts him in a better position to campaign for president than he has as speaker. Not endorsing that as true, but since we’re playing _Game of Thrones_… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1773 "2017-07-28T18:17:10Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > The calculus I’m interested in hearing about, though, is the one that has to do with funding. The Kochs gave a shitload of money to the Pubs and as I understand it a lot of that was because they really hate the ACA and want it gone. > > So Pubs held their noses and (mostly) voted for skinny repeal. They lost. I don’t know how much the Kochs like Trump, but I have to imagine this loss will hurt him in their eyes. > > It’s possible (and I have no idea how likely) that GOP Reps may take a look at Trump’s approval ratings in the polls and assess the Kochs’ lack of approval and decide the best thing to do is to play the middle – not actively diss Trump, but not actively support him either. If the Dem candidate in the district seems to be getting some traction they may then come out strongly against Trump. > > I don’t understand Ryan’s stance. The only idea I have is very far-fetched – he figures if Trump gets impeached he may quit in a huff. If Pence is somehow out too before taking over as POTUS, then Paulie’s next in line. But the likelihood of that is so slim I can’t see Ryan giving it any weight. I don’t know that Ryan wants to be president, and even if he did, getting it like that would not give him any political capital. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1774 "2017-07-28T18:28:53Z")
The ball was totally in Ryan’s hands for a few minutes there. Ryan, of House Harkonnen, Worst of his Name, was asked by McCain to _guarantee_ that he would play along with the “anorexic plan”. If he had assured McCain sufficiently that the House would play their role in this _kabuki_ version of _Swan Lake_, and totally pinky-swore that the House would not pull a slow one…they would have gotten his vote. But either he wouldn’t, or he couldn’t. He tried to make do with an “almost” and McCain wouldn’t buy it. Therein lies an interesting question: was it because Ryan _couldn’t_, or because he really wanted to get that shriveled sack of a bill and pass it!? Dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1775 "2017-07-28T18:32:55Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > I don’t know how much the Kochs like Trump, but I have to imagine this loss will hurt him in their eyes. My (completely uninformed) guess is that they dislike him personally and don’t buy into his bullshit at all, but will work with him so long as their goals coincide. The biggest issue is that no one is ever really sure what his goals are, or when they will change at the drop of a hat. He’s literally the bull in the china shop. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1776 "2017-07-28T18:35:04Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > My (completely uninformed) guess is that they dislike him personally and don’t buy into his bullshit at all, but will work with him so long as their goals coincide. > > The biggest issue is that no one is ever really sure what his goals are, or when they will change at the drop of a hat. He’s literally the bull in the china shop. I like the “horse in a hospital” metaphor better. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1777 "2017-07-28T18:36:38Z")
Rabid possum in the outhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1778 "2017-07-28T18:49:30Z")
Sewer rat at a garden party. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1779 "2017-07-28T18:50:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > My (completely uninformed) guess is that they dislike him personally and don’t buy into his bullshit at all, but will work with him so long as their goals coincide. > > The biggest issue is that no one is ever really sure what his goals are, or when they will change at the drop of a hat. He’s literally the bull in the china shop. The Kochs don’t give a shit about Trump’s agenda because his agenda’s stupid. He’s an unpredictable hazard to everyone where Congress isn’t involved, but most rich people can get away to somewhere where the nuclear fallout isn’t so bad. What Trump is to rich GOP donors is a guy with a pen. Trump will sign any GOP health care bill they will pass; he doesn’t have any idea what’s in them or what they mean, but he’ll sign them because it’s him Winning and he doesn’t care what the outcome is. The problem is they can’t pass one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1780 "2017-07-28T18:57:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Rabid possum in the outhouse. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sewer rat at a garden party. Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1781 "2017-07-28T21:16:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > …When Ryan takes pains to make it very clear that Trump can fire Sessions, he’s doing that for one reason; to pave the way towards refusing to acknowledge, or do anything about, obstruction of justice. He’s got his remarks prepared for when Trump shivs Robert Mueller. Oh, yes, I think you’re right about that. Ryan has no particular interest in upholding the Constitution or in the fate of the nation; he’s focused on his fantasy of the near term, in which the Russia investigation goes away and Trump turns into a policy-focused supporter of Ryan’s pet projects who will energetically and skillfully get Ryan the votes he needs to dismantle Social Security, Medicare, etc. And hey, maybe the VA, too! Damned entitled veterans! But, yeah. Ryan has that post-firing-of-Mueller speech all written out. > [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > The calculus I’m interested in hearing about, though, is the one that has to do with funding. The Kochs gave a shitload of money to the Pubs and as I understand it a lot of that was because they really hate the ACA and want it gone. > So Pubs held their noses and (mostly) voted for skinny repeal. They lost. I don’t know how much the Kochs like Trump, but I have to imagine this loss will hurt him in their eyes. … Only the most delusional (like, possibly, Paul Ryan) still believe that Trump can, or will, support legislation effectively. He’s useless. And only fear of his base has been staying the hands of the GOP Congress. But what if the base keeps shrinking? Hitting the base right where they live: today’s _Wall Street Journal_ column by conservative stalwart Peggy Noonan: > [@](#): > > The president’s primary problem as a leader is not that he is impetuous, brash or naive. It’s not that he is inexperienced, crude, an outsider. It is that he is weak and sniveling. It is that he undermines himself almost daily by ignoring traditional norms and forms of American masculinity. … > > Half his tweets show utter weakness. They are plaintive, shrill little cries, usually just after dawn. … > > His inability—not his refusal, but his inability—to embrace the public and rhetorical role of the presidency consistently and constructively is weak. > “It’s so easy to act presidential but that’s not gonna get it done,” Mr. Trump said the other night at a rally in Youngstown, Ohio. That is the opposite of the truth. The truth, six months in, is that he is not presidential and is not getting it done. His mad, blubbery petulance isn’t working for him but against him. … The column is behind a paywall, but these excerpts and more can be read at: ["Trump Is Woody Allen Without the Humor" - Peggy Noonan](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/28/1684806/--Trump-Is-Woody-Allen-Without-the-Humor-Peggy-Noonan) It’s getting to the point where Fox News simply won’t be able to fill its time slots with those who praise Trump—they’ll just have to run the same two hours of programming (_Fox & Friends_ and _Hannity_) over and over and over again. Because everyone else they’ve relied upon throughout the years will _gag_ at having to praise that silly, awful man. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1782 "2017-08-01T00:05:35Z")
Trump himself was instrumental in his son’s coverup. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleading-statement-on-meeting-with-russian-lawyer/2017/07/31/04c94f96-73ae-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304\_story.html?tid=sm\_tw&utm\_term=.81cd4ee62991](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleading-statement-on-meeting-with-russian-lawyer/2017/07/31/04c94f96-73ae-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.81cd4ee62991) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=90)