# Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799 "2017-03-23T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 92
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1823 "2017-08-04T17:14:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Dude, we ain’t aiming for the football. Charlie Brown got mad and kicked Lucy _where?_ ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1824 "2017-08-04T18:05:11Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Charlie Brown got mad and kicked Lucy _where?_ _tsks softly_ …right in the Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1825 "2017-08-04T21:45:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Everyone, you have got to understand the distinction **Okrahoma** is making. If anyone around Trump is indicted, they are no true Trumpists. If Ivanka herself were indicted for something, **Okrahoma** would argue that it isn’t big news because Donald isn’t even married to her mother anymore, so it is like she is barely part of his family. [Here is](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/04/would-even-care-if-was-guilty.html) a timely op ed from Foxnews underscoring the problem. Basically arguing that since the economy is good, even if Trump is totally guilty that maybe we should just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1826 "2017-08-04T23:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > …As the borscht gets deeper for the Trump administration on matters Russian… (Cited above) Dennis Miller, look out! There’s another tighty-righty humorist aborning! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1827 "2017-08-05T02:20:03Z")
Flynn is either singing, [or should be](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/us/politics/robert-mueller-michael-flynn-turkey.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0). \* “Investigators working for the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, recently asked the White House for documents related to former national security adviser Michael T. Flynn, and have questioned witnesses about whether he was secretly paid by the Turkish government during the final months of the presidential campaign, according to people close to the investigation.”\* According to [Preet Bahara](https://twitter.com/PreetBharara/status/893637864113577984) (who is in a position to know, I would guess): “If true, request for WH documents re: Flynn’s work for Turkey is much more significant than breathless reporting about GJ yesterday. Much.” because this is “Direct evidence of a crime is being sought, not the mere setting up of an investigative body”. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1828 "2017-08-06T19:33:41Z")
BTW: [Rod Rosenstein: Mueller needs to come to me if he wants to chase any crime outside scope of Russia probe](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rod-rosenstein-mueller-needs-to-come-to-me-if-he-wants-to-chase-any-crime-outside-scope-of-russia-probe/article/2630745) \*If there’s evidence of a crime that’s found within the scope of what they have agreed, then Mueller has free rein, Rosenstein explained. If it’s outside the scope of the probe, then “he needs to come to the acting attorney general, at this time me, for permission to expand his investigation”. … Reports have come out over the past couple months about how the probe is investigating trump for obstruction of justice, and that Mueller has impaneled grand juries, capable of issuing subpoenas. These reports and more have relied on anonymous sources, against whom [sic] Rosenstein caution could be unreliable. He dubbed these reports, “speculation in the news media”. \* ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1829 "2017-08-06T19:52:06Z")
That is one strange headline. Does Fox factor in somewhere? For comparison, look at this headline: **Rosenstein: Special counsel Mueller can investigate any crimes he uncovers in Russia probe** > **[Rosenstein: Special counsel Mueller can investigate any crimes he uncovers in...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/rosenstein-special-counsel-mueller-can-investigate-any-crimes-he-uncovers-in-russia-probe/2017/08/06/2209365a-7aae-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html)** > > The deputy attorney general said the Russia investigation is continuing apace, even as Trump dismissed the probe as “a total fabrication.” “Rosenstein said special counsel Robert S. Mueller III can investigate any crimes that he might discover within the scope of his probe, but the deputy attorney general would not discuss which individuals are the subject of their inquiry.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1830 "2017-08-06T20:43:44Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > That is one strange headline. Does Fox factor in somewhere? **Okra** ’s source is the Washington Examiner, which is even more far-right-wing than the Moonie Times. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1831 "2017-08-06T20:50:59Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > That is one strange headline. Does Fox factor in somewhere? For comparison, look at this headline: > > **Rosenstein: Special counsel Mueller can investigate any crimes he uncovers in Russia probe** > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/rosenstein-special-counsel-mueller-can-investigate-any-crimes-he-uncovers-in-russia-probe/2017/08/06/2209365a-7aae-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/rosenstein-special-counsel-mueller-can-investigate-any-crimes-he-uncovers-in-russia-probe/2017/08/06/2209365a-7aae-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html) > > “Rosenstein said special counsel Robert S. Mueller III can investigate any crimes that he might discover within the scope of his probe, but the deputy attorney general would not discuss which individuals are the subject of their inquiry.” The article I posted comes with a direct quote from Rosenstein. As in: “If it’s outside the scope of the probe, then **“he needs to come to the acting attorney general, at this time me, for permission to expand his investigation”**.” So, the WaPo headline you posted is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1832 "2017-08-06T21:20:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The article I posted comes with a direct quote from Rosenstein. As in: “If it’s outside the scope of the probe, then **“he needs to come to the acting attorney general, at this time me, for permission to expand his investigation”**.” > > So, the WaPo headline you posted is incorrect. I don’t think you understand just how broad is the scope of Mueller’s investigation. First, grasp that it is a _counterintelligence_ investigation. That alone grants Mueller extremely broad powers. The order reads in part (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > (b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including: > > (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and > > (ii) **any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation** ; and > > (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a). > > (c) **If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters**. . . Here is a link to the full text of the order: [Special Counsel’s Order by Rosenstein](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726385-Order-3915-2017-Special-Counsel.html#document/p1) Further, Rosenstein incorporated by reference Comey’s testimony in March into the Order (again, bolding mine): > [@](#): > > I have been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election **and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts. As with any counterintelligence investigation, this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed**. So basically, there is almost nothing outside of Mueller’s scope, and almost nothing for which he needs Rosenstein’s “permission” to investigate. Rosenstein knows that, since he wrote and signed the order. Rosenstein’s statement is entirely true – and basically meaningless, to the extent that it acts as any restraint on Mueller’s mission. And **bobot** ’s post is equally true. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1833 "2017-08-06T21:21:50Z")
1. Even if Rosenstein is being quoted accurately, it doesn’t mean that he won’t agree to expand Mueller’s investigation if he finds evidence of some related crime. 2. OTOH, Mueller & Rosentein won’t want to personally pursue every random crime they stumble on, that doesn’t mean that they will turn a blind eye to it. If they find out that Eric Trump is robbing parking meters, for example, they could always hand that file over to local PD. 3. The “Russian thing” includes all the various money and people the Trump organization have been dealing with for decades. Investigating the ties between Russia and the Trumps will have to start with: a. who are all these people? b. how do they know each other? c. what arrangements - business, money, personal - do they have together? d. what are their movements? e. where does the Russian government come into it? And all that’s just for starters. Mueller will have more than enough on his hands sorting out all that mess. It didn’t start just last year and it obviously includes the Trump family finances. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1834 "2017-08-06T21:54:22Z")
It is kind of amusing that whenever the subject of Trump’s personal finances is mentioned, Trump’s pawns, those White house advisors and obfuscators simultaneously become indignant. You, Sir, have crossed a line! Those are nobody’s business, including crime fighting investigators! Especially crime fighting investigators!! ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1835 "2017-08-07T02:15:47Z")
Does that kind of feigned indignation fool anyone? It comes off as ridiculously obvious feigning, at least to me. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1836 "2017-08-07T02:32:53Z")
Particularly when there’s already precedent for expanding such investigations to cover blowjobs, it’s pretty hard to argue that finances should be off limits. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1837 "2017-08-07T18:25:39Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Does that kind of feigned indignation fool anyone? > It comes off as ridiculously obvious feigning, at least to me. Survey says…“Yes” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1838 "2017-08-07T19:20:18Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It is kind of amusing that whenever the subject of Trump’s personal finances is mentioned, Trump’s pawns, those White house advisors and obfuscators simultaneously become indignant. You, Sir, have crossed a line! Those are nobody’s business, including crime fighting investigators! Especially crime fighting investigators!! It’s the authoritarian mind at work: _How DARE you question the Dear Leader!?! Everything the Dear Leader does is, by definition, good and right!_ (Among the many depressing things we’ve learned in the past eight months, is that there are _way_ too many Americans who see that as a reasonable world view.) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1839 "2017-08-07T20:08:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Google translate has the Latin phrase “questus est verus stercore”. > > The grand jury is or will be issuing subpoenas. One has to assume that Don the Con will get one. How do his lawyers prep him for that? If they’re worth 1/10 of what he’s paying them, they will instruct him to plead the fifth to every question. But they won’t be there. He is so easily baited, he’s going to chatter like a teenage girl and incriminate the bejeezus out of himself. The thing about pleading the Fifth, especially with a Federal Grand Jury, is that you can’t just plead it to avoid embarrassing yourself. You have to be specifically avoiding incriminating yourself. So pleading the fifth equals “I committed a crime” and it will do nothing but focus Mueller’s attention even closer until he figures out what crime you’re hiding. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1840 "2017-08-07T21:30:19Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s the authoritarian mind at work: _How DARE you question the Dear Leader!?! Everything the Dear Leader does is, by definition, good and right!_ > > (Among the many depressing things we’ve learned in the past eight months, is that there are _way_ too many Americans who see that as a reasonable world view.) At least with North Korea, you can be executed for not expressing that ideology. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1841 "2017-08-08T11:09:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s the authoritarian mind at work: _How DARE you question the Dear Leader!?! Everything the Dear Leader does is, by definition, good and right!_ > > (Among the many depressing things we’ve learned in the past eight months, is that there are _way_ too many Americans who see that as a reasonable world view.) It’s predictable that the right will dismiss these concerns as trivial because they’ve invested themselves in their president. They view themselves at war with liberalism, and what matters is winning the war and nothing else. The Constitution and the rule of law protect a diversity of viewpoints, which is the antithesis to their politics. They want to win the war, and if they have to ignore the principles and institutions that safeguard political stability in the short run, this is okay in their opinion because they will restore that order and balance once liberals are crushed. Among authoritarians, this sort of hostility doesn’t just go away, either; it typically has to be satisfied somehow and brought to some sort of natural conclusion. It’s not amusing, but rather ominous. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/1842 "2017-08-09T14:29:52Z")
FBI conducted a predawn raid of Paul Manafort’s house in July in connection with Russia probe, according to the Washington Post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=91) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799.md?page=93)