# Trump bloody after shots fired at a Trump Rally: Jul 13, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 13, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162 "2024-07-13T22:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/553 "2024-07-15T02:30:50Z")
Nobody, NOBODY wanted this, but yet… [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/554 "2024-07-15T02:33:08Z")
Moderating: > [@sweepkick](#): > > Nobody, NOBODY wanted this, but yet… Why are you posting this bare link from August 2016 in a breaking news thread about an assassination attempt on Trump? It doesn’t belong in this thread. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/555 "2024-07-15T03:22:31Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > the explosives would be set off on the other side of the event as a distraction. All the Secret Service agents rush over that way and when they do, the real bad news comes in from the now-unprotected side. Which of course ridiculously ignores the fact that the SS agents nearby Trump would gang-tackle him down and hustle him away from the explosion while other agents dealt with the distraction. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/556 "2024-07-15T04:06:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m wondering if the Secret Service snipers were bound by some sort of rules of engagement, to the point where even when they saw something as obvious as a gunman with a rifle pointed at the president, they still couldn’t shoot him until he actually opened fire. Even if it’s the case that they can’t shoot first, they could have done something like raised an alert. That way the the agents can get Trump off the stage before shots are fired. I thought that all an agent had to do was say “gun” into the radio and all the agents would do what’s necessary to whisk the protected person away. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/557 "2024-07-15T04:41:56Z")
If ever there was a more fitting headline…. > **[Trump gunman: An 'outcast' who wasn't let on school rifle team because he was...](https://news.sky.com/story/trump-gunman-an-outcast-who-wasnt-let-on-to-the-school-rifle-team-13177698)** > > Thomas Matthew Crooks has been described by classmates as a "loner" who regularly wore hunting outfits to school and was "bullied almost every day". The 20-year-old lived in a well-off city in Pennsylvania. _An ‘outcast’ who wasn’t let on school rifle team because he was ‘a bad shooter’_. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/558 "2024-07-15T05:00:47Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even if it’s the case that they can’t shoot first, they could have done something like raised an alert. That way the the agents can get Trump off the stage before shots are fired. I thought that all an agent had to do was say “gun” into the radio and all the agents would do what’s necessary to whisk the protected person away. This. Assuming it was a policeman and not SS and he was investigating what the people said was a man with a riffle the protocol would be to spot him and make a radio call or spot him with gun drawn and shoot him. At the very least make a radio call of a possible sniper under investigation with a specific location. “This is officer \_\_\_ investigating sighting of man with rifle on building X by event goers”. There are 2 failures in this scenario. 1. The police officer effed it up 2. The SS completely missed this. I don’t know if the water tower in the background could be used as a spotting platform but the tree line behind the buildings would probably be a focal point of concern for the SS for a concealed shooter. Who would expect that someone out in the open could crawl up a nearby building that was previously secured. They’re literally looking past it and above for a concealed shooter. Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/559 "2024-07-15T05:07:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There are 2 failures in this scenario. > > 1. The police officer effed it up > 2. The SS completely missed this. To make it a proper list, 1. There was no time between the officer investigating the roof and shots fired (on the order of seconds) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/560 "2024-07-15T05:09:45Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > To make it a proper list, > > 1. There was no time between the officer investigating the roof and shots fired > > ~Max Yes but before investigating it would have been useful to make a report prior to climbing the building. It would have drawn the attention of the SS sniper who could have yelled “GUN”. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/561 "2024-07-15T05:12:11Z")
But that’s what I’m saying. We don’t have a timeline yet. Maybe SS _was_ alerted by officer and simply didn’t have time to secure the president. Suspect was killed in a matter of seconds right? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/562 "2024-07-15T05:16:08Z")
Their reaction after the shooting started was spot on. But the people pointing out the guy climbing up the building was minutes prior and the officer who climbed up the building should have alerted the SS of what he was going to investigate. If that wasn’t communicated then there were minutes lost prior to the start of shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/563 "2024-07-15T05:20:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > But the people pointing out the guy climbing up the building was minutes prior and the officer who climbed up the building should have alerted the SS of what he was going to investigate. I saw the witness claim he tried to alert local police minutes before. I have not seen anyone report the officer attempted to climb the roof minutes before. CNN reported the events as if the officer let go immediately before shooter opened fire, quoting local sheriff. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/564 "2024-07-15T05:23:34Z")
It was reported that the officer climbed up, the shooter turned and saw him and pointed his gun at him. The officer fell off the roof. If that’s accurate there’s a possible communication gap at that point. A call should have gone out at the time the officer acknowledged what multiple people were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/565 "2024-07-15T05:25:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The officer fell off the roof. “The officer let go of the ledge to ‘take cover’ and save his own life. The gunman then started firing from the rooftop.” [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/14/politics/local-officer-tried-stop-gunman-trump/index.html). Per sheriff they may have been responding to a call on a suspicious person, without knowing he was armed. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/566 "2024-07-15T05:28:27Z")
What I’m saying is he should have reported what people were alerting him too prior to climbing up to check. The SS sniper had a scope and could have focused on the building. There’s a possible communication gap. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/567 "2024-07-15T05:30:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What I’m saying is he should have reported what people were alerting him too prior to climbing up to check. What I’m saying is maybe they _did_ make that report and it didn’t help - couldn’t help. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/568 "2024-07-15T05:33:02Z")
How could it not help? They don’t need a certified letter documenting a sniper to intervene. This wasn’t Dallas with tall buildings surrounding the plaza. It was a handful of buildings of which the SS sniper had no difficulty locating and killing the man once the shooting started. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/569 "2024-07-15T05:35:17Z")
The fact that suspect got a clear line of sight implies a hole in the security detail. It seems to be an M shaped roof. We don’t know if Secret Service snipers had or could have a line of sight on the shooter before he poked his head over the top of the roof to shoot at Trump, do we? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/570 "2024-07-15T05:36:57Z")
It would be pretty obvious if they were alerted ahead of time particularly given how fast the target was acquired and eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/571 "2024-07-15T05:38:47Z")
We don’t know how many seconds “ahead of time” could have been, and as I just mentioned, we don’t know if suspect was exposed to existing sniper positions before opening fire. For all we know the reason the threat was neutralized so quickly may have been because the officer _did_ properly alert SS, and that actually saved lives. How can we know at this point? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/572 "2024-07-15T06:03:55Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > We don’t know how many seconds “ahead of time” could have been, and as I just mentioned, we don’t know if suspect was exposed to existing sniper positions before opening fire. Trump wasn’t tackled by the SS until after he was shot. If there was a radio call of a man with a gun he should have been escorted out surrounded by SS. If an officer made a call before climbing the building then we’re not talking a couple of seconds. It’s all conjecture at this point but there’s a pretty big security lapse considering how few buildings were involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162.md?page=29)