# Trump bloody after shots fired at a Trump Rally: Jul 13, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 13, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162 "2024-07-13T22:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/593 "2024-07-15T14:22:17Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > If you put in “Butler Farm Show, Inc.” in Butler, PA into google maps you can get a good sense of the area. It’s much “bigger” than it appears. Dozens of buildings. Lots to cover. Yes but this particular building was the one of a group of buildings that was adjacent to the field where the event was taking place, right? I think most of the Internet is wondering why that particular building’s rooftop wasn’t covered by anyone physically there. And if we’re all wondering that, it’s weird to me that the shooter was confident that it wasn’t. Not in a conspiracy way, mind you. In a dumb luck way. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/594 "2024-07-15T14:26:03Z")
In hindsight, there seem to be two things that could have happened differently: 1. The gunman could have worn something that would make him appear to be a member of law enforcement. 2. As someone else pointed out, the cop who first confronted the gunman (but had to retreat because of the rifle being pointed in his face) could have fired his pistol in the air several times. The sound of gunshots would have gotten Secret Service to scramble around the president and make people take cover. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/595 "2024-07-15T15:03:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Here’s a video of the shooter getting in to position. Apologies if linked already. Wow. It shows people yelling at an officer in the vicinity that there’s someone on the roof. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/596 "2024-07-15T15:39:35Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Yes but this particular building was the one of a group of buildings that was adjacent to the field where the event was taking place, right? That’s correct. Probably the closest building to the stage (outside the perimeter). The perimeter meaning going through security/metal detectors, etc. For example, you can be at or inside an airport, but outside the perimeter (TSA security checkpoint), but there is a police presence well outside the perimeter. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I think most of the Internet is wondering why that particular building’s rooftop wasn’t covered by anyone physically there. And if we’re all wondering that, it’s weird to me that the shooter was confident that it wasn’t. No idea. Maybe it was covered and the kid found a few seconds when it wasn’t. I also think dumb luck played a part. What the google maps does show\*\*, is there are many buildings for a motivated shooter with a rifle to get on and I believe those are the “last tier” of coverage the snipers would be responsible for scanning for threats (not the close one the shooter was on). But how anyone leaves the closest one uncovered to allow this is malpractice. As was the response when it was known a guy with a gun was on the building. I’d imagine breakdown in communication - both actually communicating at all and clearly understood by all when you are - the latter one takes training I bet. \*\*You need to take elevation/topography into account which I haven’t seen. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/597 "2024-07-15T15:47:45Z")
Nice article with pictures of area. [New York Post July 14th 2024](https://nypost.com/2024/07/14/us-news/secret-service-blames-local-police-says-it-was-tasked-with-securing-properties-surrounding-trumps-pa-rally/) **Secret Service blames local police, says they were tasked with securing properties surrounding Trump’s Pa. rally** - The Secret Service blamed local police for failing to secure the rooftop from which gunman Thomas Matthew Crooks attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump, insisting it was outside the perimeter the federal agency was tasked with protecting. - Instead, securing and patrolling the factory grounds of AGR International Inc. — located about 130 yards from the stage where Trump was speaking Saturday — was the responsibility of local Pennsylvania police, Secret Service representative Anthony Gugliemi said - The Secret Service was only tasked with covering the grounds where Trump’s rally took place, with local police being recruited to assist with those efforts and secure the area outside the rally. - The officer backed down the ladder, and in those moments, Crooks took aim and fired about eight bullets at the rally. He struck Trump in the ear, fatally struck bystander Corey Comperatore in the audience, and gravely wounded two others in the crowd. - Within moments, Secret Service snipers stationed on a barn rooftop behind the stage fatally shot Crooks. Snipers appeared to have their sights trained in the direction of Crooks before they opened fire on him, though it is unclear whether they had seen him. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/598 "2024-07-15T15:49:35Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > > > There’s what, 4 buildings on that property and one adjacent to the field, the one he was on? > > If you put in “Butler Farm Show, Inc.” in Butler, PA into google maps you can get a good sense of the area. It’s much “bigger” than it appears. Dozens of buildings. Lots to cover. > > I doubt those snipers were covering a building so close (until they knew the shooter was there). There only appear to be a handful of buildings with line of sight that are close enough for someone who is not a highly trained professional to be a threat. A colossal fuck up. > [@enipla](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > The red haired guy? I thought he said he was trying to alert the police for minutes. > > Yeah. This is weird. And if the SS saw the guy on the roof, why in the hell did they not alert whomever could check it out, and keep Trump off the stage? > > I still don’t think it was a false flag, but a pretty damn big screw up. They saw the guy? And did nothing? Maybe they thought he was a local just watching from a roof top? I suppose… During the one presidential detail I was in that was applicable, despite being warned to not go on the roof several people still did. Local PD was sent to chase them away. I’m sure that’s true at every event. An appearance by the president or former president/current candidate is a spectacle. People want to see. If you shot every looky-loo who went where they weren’t supposed to be it would be a bloodbath. Even still the building was close enough that it should have been covered more securely. The buildings we dealt with were much further away. Maybe it was seen as being impractical for someone to get to the roof but the shooter found a way? > [@enipla](#): > > > [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > > This one would have been IMO slightly more difficult only because I think the AR-15 isn’t the ideal rifle for this shot. > > Agree. But there are a lot of AR-15 fan boys out there. Sure it’s fine for what it does (don’t own one, shot one once). I would think that since PA is full of hunters, and deer, a hunting rifle would make sense. Basically what Marine snipers use. > > I’m not a hunter myself, but I like to target shoot. A 150 meter shot? An AR-15 is an ideal weapon for that. During army qualification that’s one of the gimmes. With iron sights it doesn’t get dicey until 200-300 meters but that has more to do with the eyeballs than the weapon. That’s assuming a basic level of skill and experience and a rifle that is adequately zeroed. My personal zero is close to factory zero so I’m confident of making any 150 meter shot minus adrenaline. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/599 "2024-07-15T15:56:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Their reaction after the shooting started was spot on. But the people pointing out the guy climbing up the building was minutes prior and the officer who climbed up the building should have alerted the SS of what he was going to investigate. or at least fire a warning shot / shot into the air (had he no direct comm. line with SS) … that should trigger a lot of 1000 times trained processes from SS - and they would have gotten trump off the stage in no time. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/600 "2024-07-15T15:56:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > **Secret Service blames local police, says they were tasked with securing properties surrounding Trump’s Pa. rally** Memo to SS: “Tasking” local police with an important job does not excuse you from responsibility to verify that it’s being done properly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/601 "2024-07-15T15:59:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > People want to see. If you shot every looky-loo who went where they weren’t supposed to be it would be a bloodbath. Combine that with the Secret Service saying the local cops were supposed to secure the area the shooter used, and you get SS reluctant to shoot not just a random “civilian” looky-loo, as you say, but possibly a local cop or state trooper. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/602 "2024-07-15T16:00:22Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Their reaction after the shooting started was spot on. But the people pointing out the guy climbing up the building was minutes prior and the officer who climbed up the building should have alerted the SS of what he was going to investigate. > > or at least fire a warning shot / shot into the air (had he no direct comm. line with SS) > > … that should trigger a lot of 1000 times trained processes from SS - and they would have gotten trump off the stage in no time. In most cases and possibly every state firing a warning shot is illegal. Not firing a warning shot is so hardwired into police that there is no way it will happen in the heat of the moment during a unique situation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/603 "2024-07-15T16:07:22Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Combine that with the Secret Service saying the local cops were supposed to secure the area the shooter used, and you get SS reluctant to shoot not just a random “civilian” looky-loo, as you say, but possibly a local cop or state trooper. Looky loo’s aren’t using an AR-15 style camera. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/604 "2024-07-15T16:07:27Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In most cases and possibly every state firing a warning shot is illegal. Not firing a warning shot is so hardwired into police that there is no way it will happen in the heat of the moment during a unique situation. I think you’re referring to a shot intended to warn a suspect. Here, the intent would have been to warn the Secret Service. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/605 "2024-07-15T16:12:00Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > I think you’re referring to a shot intended to warn a suspect. Here, the intent would have been to warn the Secret Service. So what? Their instinctual training would still be not to do that ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/606 "2024-07-15T16:17:49Z")
Here’s a bigger picture of the area. Trump, Sniper, Shooter are in the middle (all blue X in picture). It’s _roughly_ 650 yards from edge of picture to center X. So, lots of realistic long-range (300+ yards) shot opportunities (again, depending on what topography allows). My point is, the snipers are covering a lot ground. The snipers behind Trump at some point know there is a potential threat in the specific direction the shooter is actually at before he shoots so something was communicated to them (they are looking through their scopes scanning/ready to shoot; not scanning with their binoculars looking for a potential threat) but they might be “looking” way past that building the shooter was on - even if just a hundred yards past or so. Or they just didn’t have an angle on the shooter (the roofs are angled, not flat). We don’t know any of this yet. [![](https://i.imgur.com/gs6hJnM.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/gs6hJnM.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/607 "2024-07-15T16:20:33Z")
No, but that figure in camo holding a rifle on the roof over there could be a statie or sheriff’s deputy. Wouldn’t want to shoot him, maybe get on the radio to find out who he is and keep a bead on him in the meantime. Until he fires and resolves any ambiguity the hard way. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/608 "2024-07-15T16:20:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In most cases and possibly every state firing a warning shot is illegal. then call it a shot that didn’t hit the subject. ;o) think of it as a different form of “police whistle” … (which I assume are no longer a thing) … ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/609 "2024-07-15T16:24:39Z")
SS got complacent, cops screwed up. The whackos only have to get lucky once. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/610 "2024-07-15T16:38:10Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > What I fear this attempt will inspire is MORE assassination attempts and other forms of political violence across the nation and around the world. > > However you align, more death won’t improve anything! I suspect that there are a few people who could die and, while it wouldn’t be guaranteed to make the world better, it would be difficult for it not become so. (This isn’t to advocate any particular death, I’m just saying that I’m not sure that your statement is factually accurate.) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/611 "2024-07-15T16:51:49Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > In most cases and possibly every state firing a warning shot is illegal. > > then call it a shot that didn’t hit the subject. ;o) > > think of it as a different form of “police whistle” … (which I assume are no longer a thing) … If you blow a whistle it won’t kill someone. You’re responsible for wherever the bullet lands. When you aren’t firing at something specific it’s more likely you will hit something not intended. That’s why it’s hardwired in to not take the Keanu Reeves _Point Break_ shot even if you think it looks cool. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162/612 "2024-07-15T16:55:44Z")
Moderating: > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I suspect that there are a few people who could die and, while it wouldn’t be guaranteed to make the world better, it would be difficult for it not become so. (This isn’t to advocate any particular death, I’m just saying that I’m not sure that your statement is factually accurate.) You’re far afield from the topic at hand, which is meant for discussion of facts that are being developed in the aftermath of the shooting. Speculating on whose death would make the world a better place isn’t a good look, either. Stop with these posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-bloody-after-shots-fired-at-a-trump-rally-jul-13-2024/1004162.md?page=31)