# Trump calls Barack Obama the "founder of ISIS." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2016, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423 "2016-08-11T07:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/81 "2016-08-12T02:59:31Z")
Debatable. What’s not debatable is that Trump said that Obama is the \*literal \*founder of ISIS, so what does that have to do with shit? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/82 "2016-08-12T03:07:15Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Debatable. What’s not debatable is that Trump said that Obama is the \*literal \*founder of ISIS, so what does that have to do with shit? Which country has the best intelligence? Which country controls the internet (Google, Facebook etc)? How did isis recruit so many people from world over? Who provided them arms? Whose allies buy all the oil from isis? Who provided safe heaven in Syria? Think about these questions. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/83 "2016-08-12T03:07:50Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Isis would be dead by now and so much bloodshed would be prevented if it wasn’t allowed to flourish in Syria. 300k+(and counting) Syrians have died thanks to Obama’s policies. Is Obama, as Trump has repeatedly claimed, the founder of ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/84 "2016-08-12T03:10:51Z")
He just answered that question above, in a not really answering it but not going full Trump yet sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/85 "2016-08-12T03:11:58Z")
Wait a minute! I thought Hillary was the founder of ISIS. Which is it then? Oh, okay. It’s [both](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKCN10M146) of them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/86 "2016-08-12T03:15:39Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Is Obama, as Trump has repeatedly claimed, the founder of ISIS? End result is 300k+ people died due to his policy. 300k is a very very big number. Just imagine their pain and their families’ pain. Then your question will disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/87 "2016-08-12T03:16:47Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Which country has the best intelligence? Which country controls the internet (Google, Facebook etc)? How did isis recruit so many people from world over? Who provided them arms? Whose allies buy all the oil from isis? Who provided safe heaven in Syria? > > Think about these questions. Hold on there, truth Seeker. General allegations do not in way prove a connection, any more than Saddam Hussein was a tyrant, therefore it is only right to bomb Iraq for the damage done on 9/11. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/88 "2016-08-12T03:31:38Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > End result is 300k+ people died due to his policy. 300k is a very very big number. Just imagine their pain and their families’ pain. Then your question will disappear. Obama was following the policy of Bush II, and with most of Americans and Iraqis demanding the troop withdrawal > **[Fact Check: Did Obama Withdraw From Iraq Too Soon, Allowing ISIS To Grow?](https://www.npr.org/2015/12/19/459850716/fact-check-did-obama-withdraw-from-iraq-too-soon-allowing-isis-to-grow)** > > Republicans have hammered President Obama for underestimating ISIS and naively allowing it to grow by leaving Iraq. But the withdrawal is only one factor in the rise of the extremists. > [@](#): > > The State Department’s lawyers said troops couldn’t stay in Iraq unless the Iraqi parliament authorized them to do so, including granting them immunity from Iraqi law. The Iraqi parliamentarians would never OK such a decision, with Iraqi popular opinion staunchly against U.S. troops staying. > > Sowell saw State’s decision as a deliberately insurmountable obstacle. > > “It was a barrier that was very high,” he said, “and there was no way it was going to be jumped over.” > > But, does Obama bear responsibility for the timing of the troop withdrawal? On balance, no. > > He was following through on an agreement made by Bush and abiding by the will of the Iraqi and American people. > > Alright so, onto the next question — > > Did the withdrawal of troops lead to the rise of ISIS? > > Back then, in 2011, there was no ISIS. The group didn’t exist under that name yet. There was just their predecessor, al Qaeda in Iraq, which had been at the forefront of the terrible insurgency in Iraq. But many thought it was licked. > > “All of the intelligence that we had gathered, all of the results of the surge, all of the detainees we had in our detention system, all of the information we had coming to us from people on the ground, from the tribes indicated that al Qaeda in Iraq was defeated,” said Ret. Col. Peter Mansoor, who served in Iraq. > > That surge was the influx of American soldiers, and the way the U.S. military organized Sunni tribes to fight against insurgents. The Americans paid them, helped arm them and gave them air cover. > > One of those tribal leaders, Sheikh Hamid Taees, told me: “In May of 2006, I worked closely with the American side to rid Anbar of terrorism and al Qaeda, and actually we killed a large number of al Qaeda fighters.” > > But by the time of that comment, early in 2014, al Qaeda was beginning to get a grip on Sunni areas again, including that province of Anbar. > > Many Sunni sheikhs say once the American soldiers left, the minority Sunni population of Iraq suffered under a government dominated by the Shiite majority. That government stopped paying most of them, and even arrested many. > > (As an aside, we should note that there was a political, as well as a military, dimension to American influence in Iraq: Obama continued to support the government even as Sunni fear and anger grew. “We were encouraged,” he said in 2013, “by the work that Prime Minister Maliki has done in the past to ensure that all people inside of Iraq — Sunni, Shia and Kurd — feel that they have a voice in their government.” > > (But they did not feel that. Sheikh Zeidan al-Jabri led a series of Sunni protests and sit-ins in Anbar, which were eventually violently dispersed by security forces at the end of 2013. > > (“For a year, we did not attack anyone; we were an example of democracy on an international level,” he told me from exile in Jordan. “And what did the world do? The world simply turned its face from us and gave Maliki the permission to attack the demonstrations and kill hundreds of innocent demonstrators.”) > > So some Sunnis were drawn back to the insurgency. ISIS found supporters and gained ground. And, yes, much of that could have been prevented by a big U.S. troop presence. > > The other thing that happened after the American military left was that the Iraqi army deteriorated dramatically. > > “They really did become relatively complacent, and then flat out just didn’t train,” said Major-General Paul E. Funk II, speaking after abruptly returning to Iraq on a training mission 2014. “Just didn’t spend the money to do it, didn’t maintain the systems and therein lies the problem.” > > And corruption was running rampant. Supplies were stolen; soldiers were paid, who never reported for duty. And, so, when ISIS came rushing into the city of Mosul last year, the military collapsed. > > I met one of the defeated Iraqi troops, named Bahr Ibrahim, shortly afterward, sitting dejectedly next to an injured friend in a hospital not far from Mosul. > > “We fought,” he said. But ISIS had more men and bigger weapons. > > So, yes, the withdrawal of U.S. troops helped ISIS. If they’d stayed, they could have bolstered Iraq’s security forces and tamped down Sunni anger. > > But the Republicans’ claim that ISIS grew because Obama withdrew troops from Iraq still glosses over many other factors beyond America’s control — like the fact that the rift between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq has been going on for centuries. And that wasn’t going to be permanently solved by American troops. > > Another crucial thing is Syria. For reasons completely beyond Obama’s control, after 2011, Syria sank into civil war. Suddenly, just over Iraq’s borders were vast ungoverned spaces and lots of weapons. It became a safe haven for ISIS to grow in. It is so much a mistaken position you have that it does not lead others to appreciate your use of gross appeals to emotion on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/89 "2016-08-12T03:38:16Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > …How did isis recruit so many people from world over?.. The old fashioned way, by lying. A lie that they fervently believe but nonetheless… That is firstly, that the secular West is at war with Islam, with the sole purpose of eradication. Like so many fools before them, they do it for God. > [@](#): > > …Which country controls the internet (Google, Facebook etc)?.. This question has no meaning. > [@](#): > > …Who provided them arms?.. Salesmen. Maybe you want to ask who provided them with money? > [@](#): > > …Whose allies buy all the oil from isis?.. Most all of them, if they know it or not. > [@](#): > > …Who provided safe heaven in Syria?.. It was not provided, they seized the territory they infest. Neither “safe” nor “heaven”. > [@](#): > > …Think about these questions. Did you? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/90 "2016-08-12T03:38:37Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > End result is 300k+ people died due to his policy. 300k is a very very big number. Just imagine their pain and their families’ pain. Then your question will disappear. Actually, no, it raises more questions. For example, what do you personally believe would have been the magic action by the US that would stopped ISIL from forming? How is it that only the US could do this magic thing, whatever it is? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/91 "2016-08-12T03:59:39Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Nope, he found Osama Bin Laden, and then he blowed him up real good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/92 "2016-08-12T04:01:04Z")
Whatever Trump’s problems with language, his use of the word ‘literally’ was not colloquial or accidental. It was precise and deliberate. The right wing conspiracy theory that dates back to the beginning of Obama’s public life - that he is a radical Muslim double agent who became President in order to steal America’s secrets and hand them off to Iran and other enemies of the US - is still fervently believed by a lot on the fringes of the right (now known as the mainstream Republican Party). It’s hardly a stretch for Trump to put the idea in these people’s minds that Obama was at a meeting somewhere in the Middle East where he was part of setting up ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/93 "2016-08-12T04:07:24Z")
Watching CNN and they have the banner on the screen TRUMP AGAIN CALLS OBAMA ISIS FOUNDER (HE’S NOT). Then they showed that stupid Scottie woman who is trying to explain what trump means when he says what he means. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/94 "2016-08-12T04:10:36Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > In Syria, obama did strengthen Isis by working against Assad. He’s done more to strengthen Assad by _actually attacking_ IS/Daesh. > [@truthSeeker2](#): > > 300k+(and counting) Syrians have died thanks to Obama’s policies. Oh please. Assad started the war, Assad has done most of the killing. If you want to blame Obama for a share of that, blame him for not striking Assad in 2013. The “Isis” line is ignorant bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/95 "2016-08-12T04:11:02Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > End result is 300k+ people died due to his policy. 300k is a very very big number. Just imagine their pain and their families’ pain. Then your question will disappear. No, it won’t. In fact, your fear of answering it only highlights it. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/96 "2016-08-12T04:24:28Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Still, there is a shadow of a fair point here. The GWB and BHO administrations were very willing to destabilize secular authorities even if it created openings for religious radicals. I blame Rumsfeld and Dubya more than Obama, but Obama and Clinton supposedly “helped” spread the chaos into Syria and Libya. Replace the word “authorities” with dictators and that would be more accurate. If everyone will recall, Libya was already in chaos before the U.S. and NATO intervened through air strikes. Most of the country had already rebelled from Qaddafi’s rule. If the U.S. had not conducted air strikes that ultimately helped topple the rest of Qaddafi’s military and government, it is very likely Libya would be mired in civil war just as it more or less is today. Only it would likely be even more bloody with Qaddafi’s forces still somewhat intact and able to organize more effectively than any particular militia or tribe. Since Daesh, like most terrorist groups, thrives on chaos for an opening, they could just as easily established a presence in Libya in this scenario too. As for Syria, even without the 2003 Iraq War, it was only a matter of time before some uprising challenged Assad through force, as was illustrated in the 1982 Hama massacre. The Arab Spring just provided the spark here. The only thing Obama really did was hold off on providing weapons to the Syrian opposition until very recently and to refrain from conducting air strikes after Assad crossed the rhetorical red line by using relatively small quantities of chemical weapons. Both of these were not actions, but inactions that did not weaken Assad or otherwise strengthen Daesh. Obama did, however, direct the formation of the U.S.-led military coalition against Daesh, Operation Inherent Resolve, which for the past two years has been conducting roughly 10 airstrikes or more daily, training Iraqi and Kurdish forces, and providing weapons, equipment, and supplies for Iraqi and Kurdish forces. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/97 "2016-08-12T04:42:36Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > He’s done more to strengthen Assad by _actually attacking_ IS/Daesh. > > Oh please. Assad started the war, Assad has done most of the killing. If you want to blame Obama for a share of that, blame him for not striking Assad in 2013. The “Isis” line is ignorant bullshit. we can expect politicians to have a big ego, so they wont ever accept their mistake, such as obama’s mistake of working against assad. but atleast you, not being in politics, you can be a little more honest. islamofascism, wahabism only would have ruled in syria in the name of democracy. it was a very very big mistake from obama to work against a secular and progressive leader such as assad. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/98 "2016-08-12T05:01:26Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > it was a very very big mistake from obama to work against a secular and progressive leader such as assad. Progressive? Assad’s imprisonment, torture, and murder of peaceful protestors is what turned a mostly peaceful movement against his dictatorship into a civil war. He helped fan the flames of jihadism throughout the 2003 Iraq war and its aftermath by providing an open route for jihadis to enter the country and go into Iraq. He is one of the chief architects (no, still not a founder) of Daesh by promoting his Alawite clan to most of the key positions of power and aligning his Sunni-majority country with Hezbollah and Iran, which only further provoked Wahhabist Sunnis. Actively supporting Assad is no different and no less shortsighted than the U.S.'s active support of the Shah in Iran. It might potentially solve today’s problem but creates a festering, cancerous one down the road when an inevitable revolution topples him or his successor and installs a hostile government in its place. And as we have seen, in the Middle East, revolutions against mostly or somewhat secular governments tend to be heavily motivated by religion. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/99 "2016-08-12T11:27:37Z")
Hey folks, never mind. Trump now let’s us know it was all a misunderstanding. Here is his tweet from this morning. Ratings challenged @CNN reports so seriously that I call President Obama (and Clinton) “the founder” of ISIS, & MVP. THEY DON’T GET SARCASM? So see, he wasn’t serious all along. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423/100 "2016-08-12T11:53:38Z")
No, Donald, your dumb, dumb, voters do not understand sarcasm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-barack-obama-the-founder-of-isis/762423.md?page=6)