# Trump calls for Biden to "Resign in Disgrace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754 "2021-08-16T00:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/224 "2021-08-23T16:06:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@jsc1953](#): > > > > Tucker Carlson tonight. He did an Afghanistan story, saying that the reason the army folded so quickly is because they were all on drugs and illiterate. > > Which army? He’s been insulting the US military lately as well. Nah, if he were talking of the US forces he’d be accusing them of being too woke and allowing too many sjw in the command. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/225 "2021-08-23T16:35:57Z")
I got a sick feeling in my gut seeing articles over the weekend interviewing Afghanistan vets who feel like their sacrifices (and those of their comrades-in-arms) were all for nothing. Their feelings might be the same even if the withdrawal had been executed perfectly, but the apparent chaos and mismanagement is amplifying them. And the sick feeling comes from the realization that all this sets up a simple narrative: _Biden (and the Democrats) lost Afghanistan, making all these soldiers’ sacrifices in vain_. We all know that isn’t even remotely true. But you know that’s going to be a theme of next year’s elections, and my fear is it will be a powerful one. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/226 "2021-08-23T16:39:44Z")
‘A decent President woulda stayed and made sure the veteran’s hospitals had an unending stream of patients!’ ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/227 "2021-08-23T16:46:32Z")
Yeah, the accepted form is to declare victory and leave. Biden’s only mistake is that he forgot to make a victory speech. You can be sure that his predecessor would never stop touting his amazing victory if it happened on his watch. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/228 "2021-08-23T16:54:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > ‘A decent President woulda stayed and made sure the veteran’s hospitals had an unending stream of patients!’ A hundred valid and correct arguments in favor of withdrawing, vs. one image of a legless vet bemoaning that his sacrifice was for nothing. Which wins? > [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > You can be sure that his predecessor would never stop touting his amazing victory if it happened on his watch. It could have happened on his watch, but maybe (I can’t believe I’m typing this) he was too savvy to let it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/229 "2021-08-23T17:01:15Z")
My real fear is that ISIS or Al Qaida gets a hold of a few dozen hostages a la the Islamic Revolution in Iran. Only this time, they get beheaded instead of released. Biden would have a very hard time living that one down if that happens. I don’t think the Taliban wants it to happen, but there’s nothing that says the Taliban has complete command and control over all of the extremist elements among them. There are those who want a confrontation with the West to further their own ambitions of inspiring recruits to join a global paramilitary network. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/230 "2021-08-23T17:03:27Z")
There’s an easy political attack line for Afghanistan, but there’s also a very easy political defense line: “Obama and Trump both tried to get out of Afghanistan, but they couldn’t make it happen. I did. I ended the endless war and brought our troops home for good.” I think the latter will be far more effective, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/231 "2021-08-23T17:18:35Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I got a sick feeling in my gut seeing articles over the weekend interviewing Afghanistan vets who feel like their sacrifices (and those of their comrades-in-arms) were all for nothing. Their feelings might be the same even if the withdrawal had been executed perfectly, but the apparent chaos and mismanagement is amplifying them. I heartily sympathize with any vets who feel betrayed by the outcome in Afghanistan, but I agree that the logistics of the pullout are probably not what’s really bothering them. Those soldiers were betrayed by a two-decades-long fiasco of imperial hubris and PR manipulation, not by logistical fuckups in the final drawdown. And yeah, given the Taliban’s inevitable reconquest of the country as soon as the US left, Republicans would be beating the “Biden and the Democrats lost Afghanistan” drum even if Biden had flawlessly teleported all US personnel, allies and materiel safely and simultaneously out of the country with a snap of his fingers. I don’t excuse whatever logistical fuckups were perpetrated, but since the Republicans currently have no political strategy for governance or winning supporters other than to blame and obstruct Democrats wherever possible irrespective of facts and common sense, it was always a foregone conclusion that they’d be blaming Biden for the Taliban’s return to power. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/232 "2021-08-23T17:28:05Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > A hundred valid and correct arguments in favor of withdrawing, vs. one image of a legless vet bemoaning that his sacrifice was for nothing. Which wins? Once all Americans are out of Afghanistan, I predict that you’ll be surprised how quickly voters will develop collective amnesia regarding the whole sorry endeavor. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/233 "2021-08-23T17:46:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > My real fear is that ISIS or Al Qaida gets a hold of a few dozen hostages a la the Islamic Revolution in Iran. Only this time, they get beheaded instead of released. Biden would have a very hard time living that one down if that happens. Don’t even put ideas like that out there! > [@Kimstu](#): > > I heartily sympathize with any vets who feel betrayed by the outcome in Afghanistan, but I agree that the logistics of the pullout are probably not what’s really bothering them. Those soldiers were betrayed by a two-decades-long fiasco of imperial hubris and PR manipulation, not by logistical fuckups in the final drawdown. Completely agree … but voters can’t visualize “a two-decades-long fiasco of imperial hubris and PR manipulation.” But they can visualize Biden’s face next to a wounded, betrayed-feeling vet. > [@flurb](#): > > Once all Americans are out of Afghanistan, I predict that you’ll be surprised how quickly voters will develop collective amnesia regarding the whole sorry endeavor. Think the GOP will let them forget? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/234 "2021-08-23T18:34:10Z")
I mean the GOP has put disingenuous veterans on ads before to try to attack Democrats, nothing happening in reality is going to control that one way or another, it’s not worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/235 "2021-08-23T18:49:27Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Think the GOP will let them forget? Yes. The GOP has an interest in making this look as bad for Biden as possible for now, but once election season rolls around any Republican candidate still harping on it would have to answer uncomfortable questions – what would you have done? Do you believe that we should have stayed in Afghanistan longer? What would be gained by continuing the mission? Was President Trump right to agree to pull out on the timetable he did? Once this is over and out of the headlines, it will disappear. People won’t _want_ to think about it, and they’ll resent Republicans if they keep shoving legless veterans in their faces. Republicans have plenty of less complicated and more promising lines of attack to use next year. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/236 "2021-08-23T19:14:58Z")
My main thing is I’ve been following politics for decades and I frankly can’t remember any election where bad foreign policy cost a President an election. The closest one would be Jimmy Carter, the Iran hostage crisis was big, but it’s hard to say if that was what did it because there were massive economic issues going on as well. Before that you’d have to go to LBJ, and only “sorta”, the backlash over Vietnam was almost certainly the key deciding factor in him not seeking the nomination in 1968, but he didn’t technically run so he can’t be said to have lost, either. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/237 "2021-08-23T19:22:46Z")
Hypocrisy hardly stopped them from beating the Bengazi drum to death and it’s not about to stop them now, especially if this turns even uglier than it already is. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/238 "2021-08-23T19:24:27Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > … any Republican candidate still harping on it would have to answer uncomfortable questions … No they wouldn’t. They’d change the subject, or simply lie and say “I would have stayed and won,” regardless of any connection to facts or reality. > [@flurb](#): > > Once this is over and out of the headlines, it will disappear. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > … I frankly can’t remember any election where bad foreign policy cost a President an election. I hope you’re both right. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/239 "2021-08-23T19:25:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Hypocrisy hardly stopped them from beating the Bengazi drum to death and it’s not about to stop them now, especially if this turns even uglier than it already is. ^ This, too. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/240 "2021-08-23T19:30:06Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > _Biden (and the Democrats) lost Afghanistan, making all these soldiers’ sacrifices in vain_ . > > We all know that isn’t even remotely true. But you know that’s going to be a theme of next year’s elections, and my fear is it will be a powerful one. Both of my clueless Kansas senators immediately starting posting on social media after the withdrawal started, asking if there are any Afghan vets who needed help or assistance of any kind. They of course couldn’t give two rat’s asses about any veterans prior to this. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/241 "2021-08-23T20:31:52Z")
The situation seems to be spiraling out of control by the hour. This could easily deteriorate into a conflict between Afghans who feel betrayed and Americans/foreigners who are being sought out and being brought to the front of the checkout line. This is getting more and more dangerous for those who are not already in the airport. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/242 "2021-08-24T08:41:22Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > Yeah, the accepted form is to declare victory and leave. Biden’s only mistake is that he forgot to make a victory speech. You can be sure that his predecessor would never stop touting his amazing victory if it happened on his watch. There’s probably a banner from the GWB era in storage somewhere he could have used. > [@Akaj](#): > > A hundred valid and correct arguments in favor of withdrawing, vs. one image of a legless vet bemoaning that his sacrifice was for nothing. Which wins? The problem is that both are correct, so they’re not opposing viewpoints. There is no universe in which _not_ withdrawing would at any point justify that vet’s sacrifice, but it _would_ result in a lot more vets being sacrificed. We’re into “sunk cost fallacy” territory here. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/243 "2021-08-24T13:26:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There is no universe in which _not_ withdrawing would at any point justify that vet’s sacrifice, but it _would_ result in a lot more vets being sacrificed. We’re into “sunk cost fallacy” territory here. Believe me, I agree with you 100%. I’m just pointing out that people’s opinions (and their votes) can be based more on emotion than reasoning, and if the GOP wants to paint Biden as the guy who threw away this veteran’s sacrifice they’ll have emotion on their side. Biden could get 100 veterans to talk about why withdrawing was the correct thing to do, and it still might not make the same impact as this one (hypothetical) bitter, legless vet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754.md?page=13)