# Trump calls for Biden to "Resign in Disgrace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754 "2021-08-16T00:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/164 "2021-08-17T21:50:13Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > to me, preventable loss of human life represents a serious failure. There has been “preventable loss of human life” every day of the last 20 years. I’m not arguing that it’s awful . . . I just think that if one is going to point to one particular corner of a war as representing a “serious failure” beyond the entire cluster, then a more meaningful definition of “serious failure” might be useful. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/165 "2021-08-17T22:17:09Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Every indication is the Taliban is looking to consolidate control and they understand a shooting battle with us isn’t the way forward at this moment I think they’re thinking is that they basically have control of the country and are seeing that we can’t pack up our shit fast enough, so why do something that would demand a course reversal. They are also probably looking ahead toward the post-US Afghanistan and may be angling to curry favor with Russia, China, and neighbors in an attempt to break international sanctions and possibly even expand trade. It’s going to be difficult to run a country of 38 million people on a budget of $1 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/166 "2021-08-17T22:56:39Z")
Russia or China would probably be thrilled to help them export opium products to North America. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/167 "2021-08-17T23:00:15Z")
There are also rare earth minerals and opportunities to run pipelines to different parts of the continent. The Taliban wants greater legitimacy. They will absolutely settle scores, but they might be selective and discreet about how they do that. As awful as the Taliban are, they don’t want ISIS running around the countryside. It is too early to divine exactly how Taliban 2.0 will turn out, but I can entertain a hypothesis that proposes the Taliban may be a little careful in how it utilizes the likes of Al Qaida as well. In the end, what regimes want is power, control, money, dominance. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/168 "2021-08-17T23:05:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh come off it. I’m asking you _what your position is_ , and nobody can know that except for you. No, you’re repeatedly _telling_ me what my position is. And - oh look - you’re doing it again: > [@](#): > > I think if I were wrong, that you don’t want consequences for any of the Biden admin, you’d be the first to tell me. But you’re not telling me I’m wrong, so logic would suggest that I’m right and you can’t admit it. You’re the only person who can say, and you’re not saying. I literally explained what my position was. And here you are telling me that it’s something different. Again. Even _after_ you said that nobody could know except me. Do you even read what you write? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This is a rich vein of comedic irony coming from the guy who wanted me to prove my “principles” by writing a performance review of the past N presidents I asked if you’d called for previous presidents to resign. Which is a “review” of what _you’ve_ done. Which nobody would know but you. I could, I suppose, take the same approach you’ve done in this thread and simply assert your position - say, “You don’t actually care about Afghanistan; you’re just looking for any feeble excuse to demand Biden resign because you don’t like him. Prove me wrong!” - but that wouldn’t be a very constructive approach. But I suspect you know that already, which is why you keep misrepresenting both what I’ve said and what you yourself have said. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > All while you and every other liberal in this thread (except myself) are going to continue squirming like a worm in hot ashes when I ask the very simple and obvious question: had Trump presided over a disaster like this, would you be calling for his resignation over it? Of course you would. You can’t answer “no” because it’s obviously an untenable position, and you dare not answer “yes” because it would reveal your inconsistency vis-a-vis Biden. That’s why you’re going to continue deflecting. Oh look - further misrepresentations. I specifically answered that question: > [@Gyrate](#): > > Trump fucked up this badly on a regular basis and most of us didn’t demand his resignation over it. But here you are, claiming that we weren’t answering the question and that we couldn’t answer “no”. Again - you’re ignoring what I actually said and then claiming without basis that my position is something entirely different. One of us is continuing to deflect to avoid admitting they hold an untenable position, and it’s not me. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/169 "2021-08-18T00:17:19Z")
This is an interesting discussion. Personally, it would never occur to me that someone should resign as President when something bad happens Bad things happen all the time. Mistakes are made. Situations are difficult, and this was especially so. Absent _gross_ incompetence (which I don’t see here), we pick up the pieces and move on. Carter had his failed rescue mission, GWB was alleged to have missed warnings of the 9/11 attack. Ford had Saigon. (I think it was Ford–too lazy to google) Our presidents are elected to do the best they can. Failure doesn’t require resignations. Staying in office doesn’t mean “no consequences.” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/170 "2021-08-18T03:28:56Z")
There was no prospect at all of the US getting out of Afghanistan with no casualties and no fuckups. None. There was no prospect of anti-Biden people failing to complain about the pain from ripping the bandage off and blaming him, rather than the long list of people who caused the injury that required the bandage in the first place. Right now there are a bunch of pundits and know-nothings pontificating about what has just happened from the safety of ignorance and hindsight, who think they not only know better than all the real experts but that the real experts got it so wrong they should have been hung drawn and quartered. And those pundits and know-nothings know this from a few days of sitting in their armchair reading a few things. A few days after any complex incident, the volume of detailed, from-all-angles information available to the general public is close to zero, IME. So should I at this time form the view that the pundits and know-nothings probably have it right and all the real experts have it wrong, or the other way around? So hard to decide… This is all just noise and wild gesturing from the those who would have made noise and gestured wildly if someone stubbed their toe getting on a plane out of Kabul. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/171 "2021-08-18T04:28:16Z")
[The Onion nails it as usual](https://www.theonion.com/withdrawal-from-afghanistan-ends-longest-media-farce-in-1847496557) ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/172 "2021-08-18T05:58:36Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > years from now when things are calmed down I predict that Afghanistan will no longer be a news topic in three weeks or less. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/173 "2021-08-18T12:22:14Z")
Looks like Bush’s next painting is a winner! [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51386363498_7b2b2cc31d_z.jpg "Bush painting") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51386363498/) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/174 "2021-08-18T13:07:05Z")
I think the biggest issue the Taliban is going to have is can they actually govern Afghanistan. They were never really able to do so before we went in, they had military suzerainty over it, but lacked a lot of the institutions and bureaucracies of a state. It sounds like the person that will likely run the Taliban Afghan state is a moderate by Taliban standards, but what will his control be over guys with guns on the street? Discipline was never that high among the Taliban to begin with, and as an insurgent group, individuals and groups within it were generally expected to act autonomously most of the time. That isn’t a great format for a leader in Kabul issuing commands and expecting them to be followed. There is talk that the Taliban is putting word on the street that its guys are not to abuse civilians, and that there’s a mobile app civilians should use to report abuses. But again, how and with what regularity is the Taliban going to be able to investigate and act when its guys step out of line? Remember for an irregular force too, say a guy gets rough with a civilian and a higher up punishes the guy. But the issue is that guy has friends and maybe family/tribal members who serve in the Taliban with him. Are those going to say “well, he acted out, so be it” or are they now going to harbor resentment that might grow with time? We actually had been in early talks with the Taliban before 9/11 to be involved in building a pipeline across the country (they were more than receptive), one of the hang up issues though is the Taliban didn’t really have the sort of institutional control over the whole country to make such a project feasible. A lot of that would have to change. The easier way to run Afghanistan is sort of the old feudal model, the Taliban sits on top with control of the big cities and most of the military power, but leaves much of the country to its own devices. That limits the scope of what they need to do, but it also limits their ability to stop local conflicts from erupting, and it limits somewhat their ability to stop their members (who have all sorts of different tribal affiliations–we often call the Taliban a “Pashtun” group, but there are lots of Pashtun tribes, and tribe \> ethnicity \> country for these people) from getting into personal vendettas and other entanglements. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/175 "2021-08-18T15:13:32Z")
> [@Craig Whitlock "Unguarded Nation" The Washington Post](#): > > [Ryan Crocker, a former U.S. ambassador to Kabul, told government interviewers that the Afghan police were ineffective “not because they’re out-gunned or out-manned. It’s because they are useless as a security force and they’re useless as a security force because they are corrupt down to the patrol level.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-army-police/)” I remember articles from years ago where US soldiers expressed their frustration when training their Afghani counterparts. Even something relatively simple, like how to use their rifles effectively, was an exercise in frustration as most of the Afghan’s had no interest in aiming at their targets preferring to spray & pray which just wastes a lot of ammunition. Even getting them take the initiative to go get much needed water without relying on someone else to deliver it to them was like pulling teeth. It makes sense that nobody was surprised the Afghan government collapsed it was just a surprise it happened so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/176 "2021-08-18T16:40:04Z")
I’d just like to note that the excellent Washington Post in your link is one (Part 5) of a six part series. I’m thinking the whole thing may be worth reading, links to the other articles are embedded at the end of the article. And, FWIW, the Taliban insurrectionists are complaining that Twitter is violating their “freedom of speech” by not letting them have an account. > **[Taliban Spokesman Accuses Facebook of Stifling Free Speech by Banning Group](https://theintercept.com/2021/08/17/taliban-spokesman-accuses-facebook-stifling-free-speech-banning-group/)** > > At his first press conference in 20 years, Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid joined the techlash, by complaining about Facebook censorship. Maybe they will team up with the _other_ religiously conservative insurrectionists and file a class action lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/177 "2021-08-18T17:07:28Z")
Maybe they can get accounts on Parler. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/178 "2021-08-18T19:47:24Z")
Nah, Parler is old news. Gettr is the place to be. > **[Jihadists flood pro-Trump social network with propaganda](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/02/trump-gettr-social-media-isis-502078)** > > GETTR, the new platform started by members of the former president’s inner circle, is awash with beheading videos and extremist content. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/179 "2021-08-18T20:16:05Z")
> **[Trump: Biden's withdrawal is the greatest embarrassment in US history | Fox...](https://www.foxnews.com/video/6268391410001)** > > Former President Donald Trump joins 'Hannity' for an exclusive interview discussing the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan and how he dealt with the Afghani government during his term No, that’s _you_, dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/180 "2021-08-18T20:22:30Z")
There’s no doubt that Afghanistan has been a hot mess since day one - Biden doesn’t own the failure of Afghanistan. But there’s also no mistaking the fact that this is rapidly turning into a political disaster for him in terms of optics. The Taliban has blocked access to Kabul’s airport. They can take hostages, and I wouldn’t put it past them to use US hostages as bargaining chips to see if they can get some concessions on sanctions. A total clusterfuck in the making. He would be getting into the Jimmy Carter zone. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/181 "2021-08-18T20:28:00Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Gettr is the place to be. Legit misread that as Griftr. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/182 "2021-08-18T20:48:55Z")
Trump would have handled the withdrawal more in keeping with the American ideals we all cherish: Yes, hundreds of Afghanis would still have been scrambling after the last C-130, but it would have showered them with #10 envelopes containing COBRA forms. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754/183 "2021-08-18T22:45:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > it would have showered them with #10 envelopes containing COBRA forms. And rolls of paper towels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-for-biden-to-resign-in-disgrace/948754.md?page=10)